Photo: Nathan Reinds / EBU

The European Broadcasting Union threw out their jury votes and alleged they’d arranged to swap votes with five other countries at Eurovision 2022.

But now Romania’s broadcaster TVR is hitting back. In a strongly worded statement it has threatened to withdraw from the Eurovision Song Contest. It may also pursue legal action against the EBU.

It accuses the EBU of applying its “non-transparent” algorithm unevenly, sanctioning some countries while letting others swap votes without raising suspicions.

Romania: TVR may withdraw from Eurovision 2023

As part of its response, TVR — like Montenegro before it — suggests there is a gross double standard at play when it comes to the six offending countries (Azerbaijan, Georgia, Montenegro, Poland, Romania and San Marino). It points out that Sweden, Australia and Belgium also voted for each other…but their behaviour has not been deemed irregular.

  • Australia: 12 points to Sweden, 8 points to Belgium
  • Belgium: 10 points to Sweden, 8 points to Australia
  • Sweden: 12 points to Australia, 8 points to Belgium

The difference, however, seems to be that if you remove the suspect countries, Australia, Belgium and Sweden still perform well. That is to say, they still would have thrived even without alleged swapping.

On Thursday the EBU explained:

“The pattern in question was detected as irregular by the pan-European Voting Partner and acknowledged by the Independent Voting Monitor, as five of these six countries were ranked outside the Top 8 by the juries in the 15 other countries voting in the same Semi-Final (which included three of the Big Five: Germany, Spain and the United Kingdom). Additionally, four of the six countries were ranked in the Bottom 6 of the other 15 countries voting in this Semi-Final. A jury voting pattern irregularity of such a scale is unprecedented.”

Romania: Statement on Eurovision 2022 allegations from EBU

“TVR disapproves of the way in which the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) handled the situation generated by the votes of the national juries during the semifinals and the final of the Eurovision 2022 competition votes were divided in a way that raised suspicions.”

“While some countries have been penalized, the jurors’ grades have been replaced by EBU grades – through a so-called non-transparent “algorithm”, which in turn raises suspicions – for others no sanctions have been applied. Worse, they received additional points, directed by the EBU on behalf of the penalized countries (details at the end of the press release).”

“The impact of these suspicions on the competition and on the reputation of the sanctioned televisions could have been completely eliminated if the EBU had communicated its concerns to the parties involved as soon as they were observed, ie on Wednesday, 11 May, after the second semi-final for the jury.”

“Had the EBU communicated to the delegations the notes given by the jurors of the six countries the day after the vote and convincingly explained the existence of an “irregular voting pattern,” TVR would have had time to react to promptly investigate the allegations and correct the situation, if any.”

“In this way, on Thursday, May 12, we could eliminate any suspicion that hovered over the votes given by the jurors during the second semifinal, and during the gala, for the public, the finalists could be announced based on the notes of the jurors, not on those generated by the “algorithm.””

“However, this would have been possible only if the EBU had treated TVR as a real partner and had taken into account the fact that the Eurovision Regulation is the one that gives full independence to national juries and that televisions can neither find out nor influence the scores. granted by jurors, than long after they were sent to the EBU. Thus, TVR did not find out until after the final the way in which the Romanian jurors voted in the semifinals.”

“Unfortunately, because the EBU decided to send us the relevant information only after seven days, all we could do was ask the Romanian jury for official explanations, “post-factum,” on the vote in the second semifinal. Even in this context, in which we have already been tried and sanctioned, without being given the opportunity to defend ourselves, TVR will collaborate with all other sanctioned televisions to find out if the reported irregularities were the result of an attempted fraud.”

“Another point to note is that the EBU has prevention and control mechanisms. When there is a suspicion of a jury, it may send observers to oversee the voting process. This is what happened this year when the EBU decided to send observers to two of the six sanctioned countries.”

“The conclusion of the observers was that the vote was regular and they did not report any misconduct or attempted fraud. This is one of the reasons why at the beginning of the final audition for the public, the EBU representative announced that all the votes cast by the jurors are valid.”

“In the case of these countries, the organizers did not report “irregular voting patterns.” Moreover, they were given the most points awarded, by “algorithm”, from the countries sanctioned for voting among themselves. Of the six countries accused of having an onerous deal to reach the final, only three succeeded. Of the three countries that received points by “algorithm” from sanctioned countries, all managed to enter the final.”

“The incomprehensible attitude of the EBU towards TVR, a traditional member of this organization, which deserves to be treated with respect, is also underlined by the fact that the Eurovision organizers chose to lie during the transmission of the final results of the competition. When it was Romania’s turn to announce the result of the jury’s vote, the organizers invoked a non-existent technical problem to present the notes provided by the “algorithm.””

“We reiterate what we said in our first statement: there was no technical problem! Eda Marcus was ready to go live, and the connection worked perfectly. The only reason we were forbidden to announce the vote of the Romanian jury, which had awarded 12 points to Moldova, was that we refused to accept the score imposed by the EBU.”

“Following the situation created and the image damage brought to the public television, the TVR representatives consider the withdrawal of Romania from the future editions of Eurovision and the action in court of the event organizers.”

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Bibi
Bibi
8 months ago

I hope that with the departure of Romania, the corruption in the EBU will disappear

Bibi
Bibi
8 months ago
Reply to  Bibi

I was beeing sarcastic…

Alik
8 months ago

Go and drink your milk…

Mae
Mae
8 months ago

It’s time to cancel the juries. It matters only who qualifies to the final and who wins. If you are 12th or 15th it doesn’t matter (lowered or raised by juries). So juries are useless. It’s song contest, who says that all 40+ countries has to follow latest music trends. It’s mostly what juries appreciate.

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago

“In conclusion, the disrespect the EBU has treated the public television from Romania, Poland, San Marino, Montenegro, Georgia and Azerbaijan is shocking” Yet you overlook the blatant disregard and disrespect of these countries in applying a childish method of manipulation through the votes. Yep, you’re definitely TVR worthy. Maybe get a job with them….you sound like you’d fit in well because you also do a great job at flipping the script and changing the narrative to paint them all in an angelic manner and make the EBU out to be the devil. By the way, you ignored my previous comment.… Read more »

Nils
Nils
8 months ago

ThorBeta isn’t me, by the way. So much for your great digital competence.

Henno
Henno
8 months ago

Don’t let the door smack you on the butt on the way out, TVR…

Charles
Charles
8 months ago

This is so chidish. Gurl, bye…
Despite the criticism that we all have in common towards the EBU, what TVR truly fails to pinpoint and acknowledge is “S***, we screwed this whole thing up, but we are too proud to apologize for it, so let’s blame everything and everybody on this!”

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago

Gurl, you’re not alone in here and you don’t own the discussion. There are other people reading the comments so please stop behaving like you’re entitled to control the comments and the up/downvotes. Jeez…

Mitchell
Mitchell
8 months ago

Ok the transparency criticism against EBU is valid, but maybe the jury should not attempt fraud in the first place?

Maybe time to invite New Zealand to Eurovision as replacement? (Could potentially create another Greece-Cyprus bloc with Australia though!) Hahahaha

Lollipopmonster ESC
Lollipopmonster ESC
8 months ago

If Romania wants to leave …..there is the door. The EBU will find other non cheating countries who want to participate in the ESC. Don’t get me wrong ….I want Romania in the contest but not for every price.

Anna
Anna
8 months ago

Yes let Kosovo in

Zex
Zex
8 months ago
Reply to  Anna

Then you will be left without Serbia!

Nils
Nils
8 months ago

As for the algorithm: the answers to these questions are out there and I guess he knows them fine well. If not, someone please send him a link to this blog. That EBU lie about technical issues was told so that TVR wouldn’t cause some on-air drama after refusing to announce the aggregated votes. What should Österdahl have done instead? Publicly shame Romania? Interrupt and correct its spokeswoman? The only ones hurt by this lie were RAI who were made to come across as technically incompetent without even having anything to do with it. Apparently there was nothing wrong with… Read more »

ete sech
ete sech
8 months ago

Will the EBU do something about this whole mess or the aggregate votes is everything they’re going to do?

Baby Grogu
8 months ago

I am writing this here, because I really need Deban’s perspective on the whole Eurovision 2023. When will Wiwibloggs start uploading discussion videos like “Top Crimes”, “Jury votes exclusion”, “Commentary on the winner”, “Best Non-Qualifiers”, “What if…”, “Host City for ESC 2023”, “Europe doesn’t actually hate UK, never has”. Just threw some topics that might interest the fans….

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago

Romanians are always welcome to the contest. TVR is not anymore. You can send a song in Moldova’s NF. Why not one in your beautiful shared language? Moldova seems to honour Romanian language in Eurovision much more than Romania themselves…

Midnight Gold
Midnight Gold
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

“Jurors” in our NF were vehemently against sending something in Romanian. They obviously couldn’t let the European public miss out on the genius lyrical content of an entry like Llamame. What better way to represent your country than with that meme song, chorus made up of random Spanish words?

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago
Reply to  Midnight Gold

I’m no surprised. TVR seems to be stuck in 00’s. I hope the team behind Eurovision in Romania will change soon, after damaging your beautiful country’s reputation with the scandal they created this year. I don’t want Romania to withdraw, but guys TVR is so rotten that it’s probably better to stay out for a couple of years and fix that mess before you come back stronger 😉

Jonas
Jonas
8 months ago

If they are this petulant, even apart from the cheating, they really are not fit to take part.

victor
victor
8 months ago

The hole contest is likely to be a scam. Who knows how the public really voted…
Won’t watch 2023. It’s over.

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago
Reply to  victor

Hole indeed…

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago

If youre so sure, why not mention their name? Just a thought…

hqckk
hqckk
8 months ago

Australia and Sweden have historically exchanged high points. Belgium gave its points to Australia and Sweden because they came 2nd and 1st in the jury. Australia and Sweden gave their 8 points (3rd) to Belgium because Belgium came 4th in the jury result. These point exchanges of high-jury to high-jury make total sense and TVR have the audacity to claim that this is at the magnitude of this whole scandal. Any point exchange is justifiable like the one I have just explained except these countries’ points. TVR would have had more merit raising the cyprus-greece point trades but even then… Read more »

Bernard
Bernard
8 months ago

I noticed that too, when my comment initially had many thumbs up but thenout of nowhere went below zero in less than an hour. Pathetic. People are not so stupid to fall for this manipulation.

Purple Mask
Purple Mask
8 months ago

Indeed. I have proposed this “song title approach” before. I think it might be the inevitable future of the contest. Of course it would be lovely if broadcasters representing nations can come together in peace without trying to cheat or without threatening legal action if they don’t get their way. But being nice has not been practical. So, bye bye nations. One earth, one humanity. Music forever.

Jonas
Jonas
8 months ago
Reply to  Purple Mask

I think “one earth, one humanity” would be a very scary place to be. Survival of the fittest, dog eat dog, every man for himself. Any sense of community would be lost, not strengthened.

Anna Annita
Anna Annita
8 months ago
Reply to  Jonas

Not bad Jonas. Completely agree.

Jofty
Jofty
8 months ago
Reply to  Purple Mask

But titles like Loin d’Ici, Comme Ci Comme Ça, Llallame, El Diablo and Fuego might confuse people?

DGD
DGD
8 months ago

I don’t think a show like this would’ve high ratings tbh. You can see in many country that when they don’t qualify the ratings are low. When they qualify or win the ratings are high. I think nationalism/patriotism also plays a role here. And it wouldn’t be that hard to find out where the singer is from in the age of the internet.

Hu Hu Hu hurricane
Hu Hu Hu hurricane
8 months ago

For that the artists should travel alone without any flag or delegation. But it would be FAAAR more attractive for real serious artists to go into the contest than what’s going on right now. It would be amazing in terms of promoting artists. Without mentioning that it would be more prestigious and artistic oriented. But we all have been shown that eurovision is just political paraphernalia.

Purple Mask
Purple Mask
8 months ago

Yes, that is correct. The participant list would certainly change.

Daniela
Daniela
8 months ago

If you’re just gonna keep cheating and gaslighting then leave. It’s actually better for everyone.

Laurence
8 months ago

But no issue to let Cyprus give 12 to Greece and Greece 12 to Cyprus and so on. What a logical judgement !!!

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

That pattern is particularly rife with the televote.

Ifty
Ifty
8 months ago

So after being caught cheating you complain that you don’t like the rules in retrospect and threaten to leave as a consequence? Bye gurl. Would rather have less countries that don’t try to cheat and then gaslight.

Laurence
8 months ago
Reply to  Ifty

Who established there was a cheat ? A pattern, a guess ? There is no proof ! No law court would accept such stupid EBU arguments, assumptions.. Cyprus gave 12 points to Greece, Greece gave 12 points to Cyprus, the norhern countries gave points to each other. But no irregular vote ! A clear double standard. Each serious country should withdraw from such shame competition. The contest is a shame. The only solution is to remove the juries and let public decide !

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

The proof was posted online for all to see. The patterns were too suspect. Please open your eyes and see the real faults before running to the defence of those who do wrong.

Nils
Nils
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

No serious lawyer would want to harm his reputation for TVR as the case is clear: TVR cheated and thanks to the EBU it’s plain obvious for everyone to see. The only reason why the EBU didn’t kick them yet is because they don’t want to lose six participating countries at once. Which is a catastrophic signal in itself for it proves you can get away with anything if you just do it on a large scale. Also … since when does the verdict define the crime? By this logic, you’re basically saying that each Azerbaijan juror ranking Armenia dead… Read more »

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

How’s he attacking TVR? Can he not share his opinion? Can he not oppose yours? Can he not base his judgements on the wierd voting pattern that you’re so willing to look past? Can he not call out TVR for not actually questioning their own juror to find out why they have brought shame to Romania? Can he not post on this forum? Are you the Blog Police?

Gurl…….

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

“Irregular votes” is a blanket term used to highlight any anomalies in the voting pattern caused by jurors. This triggers an inquiry and in this case they’ve spotted a very juvenile method of manipulation through these results. All 6 countries involved put one another’s countries in the top 6 spots. Not suspicious? You’re telling me they all thought that the songs they put in their top 6 were superb songs? The weird thing is, only Poland and Moldova succeeded well with the televotes. Poland was a favourite anyway, both with the fandom and with the bookies. So that leaves the… Read more »

Nils
Nils
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

Aww … now the rules of this forum are unfair to you, too? Well, that’s a pity, isn’t it?

Vivian
Vivian
8 months ago

Whilst I think the juries deserved to have their votes annulled since they did clearly vote for each other, …which is why their votes got cancelled out in the first place… The aggregate result is a completely bull**** idea. In my opinion, all they had to do was have the jury result mirror the televote result. So for Romania, the televotes would mean 12 points to Moldova, 10 to Ukraine, 8 to Spain… et cetera et cetera, Africa Paprika. In this case, the ´jury score´ would still be on par with what that nation’s spectators had liked the most since… Read more »

Ifty
Ifty
8 months ago
Reply to  Vivian

1) They can’t say they don’t like the rules in retrospect. These were they rules and they weren’t a secret. 2) Sorry but the knee-jerk reaction of fans is always to say that the televotes are always the good solution when it’s really not. Just this year if it wasn’t for Ukrainian sympathy Moldova might have won if it was up to the televotes, and as much as the song was fun I dare anyone to look me in the eyes and tell me with a straight that this was objectively the best song. Besides the obvious fact that the… Read more »

Laurence
8 months ago
Reply to  Ifty

I liked Moldova the most. I can’t remember in mind other songs after a while. And that’s a popular contest, but not a contest of elites. So, Moldova should have won. I see no reaction from you to the gross double standard applied by EBU to the national jury vote. If they say there were irregularities they should have appplied thei criteria to all national juries. They said before announcing the points they checked al jury points and were valid, later lied there were technical issues to contact Romanian television to announe their points. EBU became a shame, using my… Read more »

Vivian
Vivian
8 months ago
Reply to  Ifty

To reflect on both things; 1) That’s true and that’s why I say their votes’ removal was just 2) I agree they’re not always better, but at least the televote result would’ve been something with a less stereotypical drawback. Yes, 12 points would have gone to Moldova, which Romania has given more than once of course, but I think since the juries already didn’t play fair… the result doesn’t need to look exactly like theirs anyway. I’d say it makes more sense to pull results out of something legitimate, rather than estimated on past behaviors of potentially different jury members.… Read more »

Martin
Martin
8 months ago

You all forget that Ostendahl first confirmed verified and valid result, then started changing votes already verified. That man must resign. No integrity.

Helene
Helene
8 months ago
Reply to  Martin

I think it is blaming the ones disconcerting the cheat. It is the cheating countries’ delegations that should resign. If they don’t – it us like these countries accept fraud openly.

Erik2
Erik2
8 months ago
Reply to  Martin

He can not sit there and explain what has happened. That would destroy the evening and put shade on the whole night. It is not a lie that it’s verified. They are controlled and suspected fraud votes has been swapped with votes according to the rules. This means that the presented votes are according to the rules. From my point of view there is no other way it can be done. It is also in accordance with how it has been done before. I find your comment defend by throwing accusations in another direction. This is trying to shift focus… Read more »

Purple Mask
Purple Mask
8 months ago
Reply to  Martin

What was his alternative? Should Martin have said this instead: “I’m sorry. We do not have a valid result. Six juries are under investigation following reported irregularities. Due to this issue, we are not good to go. There will be no jury result this year.”

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Martin

You do realise that it states in the EBU rules that if any cheating is identified, then aggregated results based on the voting patterns of the pot will become the official vote….? This is only fair. When an athlete is caught cheating in a semi final, they are disqualified. They don’t get to take part in the final. Why should Eurovision be any different. Just DONT risk bending the rules and you won’t bring shame on your country. What the countries in question need to do is instead of attacking the EBU, they need to look at the representative juror/s… Read more »

hqckk
hqckk
8 months ago
Reply to  Martin

You are completely aware that eurovision is run on a schedule right? Like he can’t just say yeah the results are invalid and just stop the show. it doesn’t work like that. it’s a tv show. While I think the aggregated results were created terribly, I think that they need to have an aggregated result because otherwise the whole basis of the show is obliterated.

Bernard
Bernard
8 months ago

Former Yugoslavia swapping 12s, former USSR swapping 12s, Greece and Cyprus swapping 12s…… oh wait, these ones don’t count, as they’ve become a Eurovision tradition. Shame on you Poland and Azerbaijan!

sam
sam
8 months ago
Reply to  Bernard

do you work for one of these corrupt broadcasters or something?

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Bernard

There’s a difference here. Juries were brought in to put an end to all this and in most cases, that is what they do. They generally are a lot more objective than the televoters, but in this case the pattern of these particular 6 countries jurors votes sneakily put each other in each others top 5/6 leaving others at a disadvantage. That’s cheating. As much as I disagree with televoters giving their neighbours 12’s, there’s nothing else that can be done to stop that. That’s why juries amd ‘pots’ were brought in because it was the only way of breaking… Read more »

Mark
Mark
8 months ago

What it bothers me the most, as a viewer from USA, who had to pay subscription fee to watch the show, is that Mr. Martin, the supervisor, when he announced the romanian jury points, he clearly and openly said: connection problems with the romanian jury. He knew that there wasn’t any connection problems, and he knew that he is about to announce false information, and he knew that he is announcing false information to millions of people around the globe, from Australia to USA. Instead to say the truth, he willingly, knowingly and intentionally announced wrong, false, incorrect information, with… Read more »

Laurence
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark

Romanian television announced to go in court agains EBU. There was a notary public and a representative of EBU supervising Romanian jury. No one signaled any issue. EBU has no proof and chance in court. Moreover, initially, announced all jury votes were validated.

Jonas
Jonas
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark

The EBU did not take any money off you. You gave your money to Peacock.

DGD
DGD
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark

This is why no one wants Americans in Eurovision, lol. So overdramatic. They don’t collect fees from you. EBU doesn’t own peacock and the USA isn’t a member of the EBU. And if he did wjat you said all of these countries would withdraw from the show. You really expect him to say “not announcing their votes because these countries cheated” on a big show like this? This is not American TV.

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Mark

Mark, what was Osterdahl supposed to do? Ridicule those countries involved by naming and shaming them? He was spretty respectful in not doing that. It was an issue that was being dealt with behind closed doors. A few days later, a lengthy report was issued (which is online) and includes pictures of the voting results which openly shows said cheating. So instead of accusing those who have put rules in place to catch out cheating, perhaps focus on those who have brought the whole contest in to disrepute with their cheating. Because if they didn’t, Mr Osterdahl wouldn’t have to… Read more »

Dida
Dida
8 months ago

I am glad that you do not leave things like that and Romania must be treated like any other EBU partner. You were trampled on in 2016, it’s time for justice!

Craig
8 months ago

What a stupid argument. As a romanian guy I truly apologize to all swedes for the statement of some dude (TVR Director) that wrote a statement in romanian language that had some grammar mistakes. He suggested points swap between Australia and Sweden when this 2 countries were the jury’s favourites. This dude should also consider that Sweden won the televoting in Romania in SF2. Was the televoting also biased? I think not.

Karl
Karl
8 months ago
Reply to  Craig

“No need to apologize”

Those people working for TVR should be blamed, I really feel for all you romanian eurofans, I really hope another tv-station can join EBU and take over your participation, It would be such a shame to see you go 🙁

Laurence
8 months ago
Reply to  Karl

Im a Romanian guy and I do not want to anymore support Eurovision with my money, from public funds. I cant agree EBU as long as they apply gross double standards and have no proof and lied millions of viewers, after having said all jury votes were verified and valid. Im not a fan of Romanian television, but this time, they are fully right. Im fed up with double standards in Eurovision contests.

Nils
Nils
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

Comments like this make me think that maybe we should indeed rather have Kazakhstan compete instead of its Borat stand-in.

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Laurence

Please explain what these double standards are. Thank you.

Sepie
Sepie
8 months ago
Reply to  AMAAN STORM

Please explain you’re western fellow xenophobic behaviour from a comment above as well, will ya?

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Sepie

Please explain how someone else’s comment has anything to do with me?
I’ll patiently await your answer….

Sepie
Sepie
8 months ago
Reply to  AMAAN STORM

You seem very fine with him caling my country “borat land” you could’ve tone his xenophobic behaviour down since i suppose you 2 are of the same western kind, instead went to ask something not that important. Maybe for you a contest is more important than xenophobia but for me xeno is a big thing specialy when im considered a “2nd hand person” just becouse i come from eastern europe.

Sepie
Sepie
8 months ago
Reply to  Sepie

And i had a comment for him as well but the mods did not approved it unfortnuly…

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Sepie

What? Where have I said its fine that he said anything about your country? Please point to where I’ve said this?

FYI, the person who commented above me is no relation to me. I dont know them, and they have a right to their opinion. I’m not a moderator. If you’re so offended, report it, but don’t moan at me when it has literally NOTHING to do with me! How moronic!

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Sepie

And if you want to talk about Xenophobia, you’re the perfect example…

“Since I suppose you two are of the same western kind”

A) stop being butthurt
B) Stop dragging me in to something that’s got nothing to do with me
C) Grow up.

Thanks in advance

S1mple
S1mple
8 months ago

Jury vote would never works … at least in this countries because even if they vote profesionally like they should would appear issues in media like already appered … why Ukraine jury didnt give votes to Lithuania and Poland or Moldova didnt gived points to Romania , so jury cant act proffesional anyway because of the media

voix
voix
8 months ago

The juries were supposed to come and solve the problem of neighbor voting and now they are the problem.

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago
Reply to  voix

Yep. I think we need a neutral international professional jury instead.

Im so fab
Im so fab
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

The members of this international jury would be humans, which means they come from a country. They wouls be biased towards their homeland. You can’t solve the problem as long as the juries are humans and not literal robots.

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago
Reply to  Im so fab

Let’s bring Americans and Japanese ones then. Lol, I’m kidding. Listen, music professionals can do their job and if they are being paid by EBU and not by the national broadcasters that makes them more independent. They won’t feel obliged to vote one way or another because people will not know what they have voted for. The problem with national juries starts from the fact that there are expectations from the people in one country for their jury to vote in a specific way. You “expect” your jury to vote for Cyprus if you are Greek, for Moldova if you… Read more »

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

And also EBU would hire real music professionals. Not random celebrities like many broadcasters do lol

Anna Annita
Anna Annita
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

Lol

Jo.
Jo.
8 months ago
Reply to  Im so fab

time for AI juries, I guess ^^

Anna Annita
Anna Annita
8 months ago
Reply to  Im so fab

So you want machines…

Anna Annita
Anna Annita
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

So you want global administration…

Alex
Alex
8 months ago

Time to scrap the made up jury votes when cheating is suspected. Just leave it blank with the country only giving out televotes. Of course when they make up jury votes, they go to the Nordics, because that’s where the “good songs’” are but also the show producers are from. Hmmm..Also scrap the fake San Marino televote. Time to crack down on vote trading. We all know Azerbaijan, the Dream Team and smaller countries like Poland and Montenegro have been cheating.

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Alex

Televotes only would not work. That’s why juries were brought in because televotes almost always follow the same pattern of neighbourly voting. Not only that but they’ve been rigged many a time too, so what other option was there? Juries are a good thing and the EBU have acted accordingly in finding the wrongdoing, the jurors who did it and intercepted the voting to make it fair (the aggregated results are not just random, they are based on the voting patterns of the ‘pot’ that the country was part of). If the Jury members can’t act fairly then action needs… Read more »

ESCalator
ESCalator
8 months ago

So, the EBU introduced a ‘professional’ jury because it didn’t trust the people’s vote, and now it is randomly assigning its own votes because it doesn’t trust the jury. How about the next time EBU just picks the winner?

Jofty
Jofty
8 months ago
Reply to  ESCalator

Well they try with the favouritised running order. Every year.

Karl
Karl
8 months ago
Reply to  Jofty

Or at least divide the running order for the final in four groups,

first quarter (1-6)
second quarter (7-12)
third quarter (13-18)
fourth quarter (19-25/26)

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  ESCalator

There has to be a system in place where if scenario A (televote) is being manipulated or following an unfair pattern then there needs to be a scenario B (jurors). This method was never designed to be a fool proof way of stopping cheating, but a way of balancing out the heavy bias towards block voting patterns. There always has to be a scenario C incase anything dodgy arises with scenario B. This has been in place for some time now but people are acting like it’s something brand new. If you’re not going to do the job you we’re… Read more »

victor
victor
8 months ago
Reply to  ESCalator

Probably that’s what they do. It’s all a scam. Won’t watch 2023. Show for idiot who belive it would happen as it is shown to the public.

Noah
Noah
8 months ago

The question is. Wouldn’t it have been better to cancel the votes of the defendant jurors so that the algorithm would not interfere with the actual voting? I think that based on conjecture as EBU has done it should be answered by the 6 affected countries and go the distance if they really have their hands clean.

Ivan
Ivan
8 months ago

Maybe San Remo voting system will be interesting in Eurovision.

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago
Reply to  Ivan

That’s what I think as well. Keep the national juries but make them demoscopic ones, plus an international jury of professionals and Pan-European televoting/online voting (JESC style). Could work fine in ESC. It gave Spain their best result in more than 20 years and works fine every year for Italy.

Anna Annita
Anna Annita
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

Follower of totalitarianism…

Jonas
Jonas
8 months ago

Blame the cheating fraudsters, people. Not Sweden. Thank you for your co-operation in this matter. Have a nice day.

Charles
Charles
8 months ago

If TVR wants to leave, fine it’s their choice because no national broadcaster is forced to take part regardless motives. But if they want to lead this whole circus to a whole other level, it’s easy – show us the Australian, Swedish and Belgian jury votes and confront them to the EBU. Then prove us all – if you can – that your juri votes as publicly displayed is a farse. Throwing our allegations and acting out like a victim is never ever going to help you in any way shape or form. So prove your point, fight for what… Read more »

EBU we see you
EBU we see you
8 months ago
Reply to  Charles

Not us, to the coart.The judge will determine what thay need to deliver not you.

Basarab
Basarab
8 months ago
Reply to  Charles

I really hope EBU will have to pay dearly for manipulating the truth with no scruples in front of whole of Europe, Russian style, so this situation will never occur again.
Technical problems with the transmission?! … yes EBU with no shame

Nicky
Nicky
8 months ago
Reply to  Charles

Sweden, Australia, Belgium all exchanged 12, 10, 8 points with each other but of course ebu will ignore that to protect their pets

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Nicky

You do realise Sweden and Australia got major points from the majority of the countries and were favourites going in to this whole thing? Its not an ‘irregular pattern’. The countries who cheated (apart from Poland) were not front runners or favourites, so their voting patterns were massively suspect. Are you telling me that San Marino, Azerbaijan (who sucked with the televote), Romania and the other countries were genuinely better than the songs that were going in to this as the favourites? The Swedish song had a massive fan base around the world and was continually lauded by the fandom… Read more »

Nicky
Nicky
8 months ago
Reply to  AMAAN STORM

Cornelia’s song is worst esc song ever, same as overhyped jury pet Moldova with zdob si flop, wish Moldova would disappear from esc instead, that joke country

Malta as well with their talentless losers, Aidan bribing himself to a win

wint
wint
8 months ago

Speaking of irregular patterns, will the EBU ever going to address the irregular patterns, or should I say regular, of the Greek-Cypriot 12p exchange? EVERY YEAR. It’s like they don’t even to to hide it. I lost count on how many of the last editions you can hear the crowd shouting “GREECE” in perfect harmony when Cyprus are about to announce their “12 points go to…”, and vice versa. It’s already a known joke and it’s the worst. Same with Azerbaijan/Armenia last places. Unprofessional. It’s time for the EBU to start penalising year-on-year patterns, and not only same-year. With all… Read more »

Writckut
Writckut
8 months ago
Reply to  wint

You forgot to mention the Viking countries, the Balkan countries and the Baltic countries

ete sech
ete sech
8 months ago
Reply to  Writckut

The issue with the Nordics is more that all of them vote for Sweden but Sweden rarely reciprocates

stilicone
stilicone
8 months ago

L’ESC è semplicemente brutto, insignificante sotto il profilo musicale, arbitrario nelle attribuzioni dei voti. Meglio abolirlo od altrimenti spero che l’Italia ne eschi

Writckut
Writckut
8 months ago
Reply to  stilicone

You can launch a proposal to drop ESC from some platforms. You would do us a favor to the rest of Europe ??

ete sech
ete sech
8 months ago
Reply to  stilicone

La tuya por si acaso

Ressay
8 months ago

This is so sad. I think Martin Osterdahl could handled this in other way, not so publicly and humillated…either way the result didnt change at all with the suposue rigged votes…It’s a scandalous…At this point, there only be 30 countries participating in 2023. So sad, so sad…

Charles
Charles
8 months ago
Reply to  Ressay

Clearly you don’t remember when ESC was just one night of music and no mess. So maybe we have an issue with “quantity” here. The more the messier. But to a certain extent the party joy of Eurovision fans seeks relies on how many countries take part. So we all have to deal with the mess if we want this party to keep that desired number. We can’t have one without the other.

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  Ressay

He didn’t publicly humiliate them. The countries themselves humiliated themselves. He didn’t mention any names…..he could’ve easily have aired it publicly In front of a live television audience of approximately 200 million, but he chose not to name them. Instead saying there were technical difficulties. The reason why it has all blown up now is because the counties involved in the cheating scandal are themselves making a scene. Instead of taking their own jury representative to hand and asking them why they felt the need to bring their countries reputation in to disrepute by cheating, they’re blaming the EBU Instead… Read more »

Otto
Otto
8 months ago

What has ranking place in the final to do with all of this? Juries are becoming more and more subjective and corrupted, so this has to end, not only for Romania but for others as well, look at Greece-Cyprus, Nordic Bloc, eastern bloc, Balkans etc.

You’re telling me that it is okay that cheap rap and off tune Ukranian song was better ranked than Portuguese song by the jurors, like c’mon, juries are just so messed up….

due
due
8 months ago
Reply to  Otto

you mixed 2014 and 2015

nikki
nikki
8 months ago
Reply to  Otto

okay……and???

sam
sam
8 months ago
Reply to  Otto

you got 2014 and 2015 swapped i’m afraid. trinjtje oosterhuis walked along alright… all the way to non qualification

Max
Max
8 months ago

“To act so selfishly is unforgivable.”

-Vladana, 2022

Tom
Tom
8 months ago
Reply to  Max

And she still stayed in semi

Nicolas
Nicolas
8 months ago

Let’s just cancel this year jury vote so Moldova is the runner up and normally real winner.
Chisinau 2023. Ukraine will be happy to have the host near them for a co-hosting.
Let’s go Folklore!

Otto
Otto
8 months ago

The EBU has to find a solution, I also don’t like this thing with the ”average votes”, because it doesn’t really represent the real votes of the national jury of a certain country, so why have the average votes just to fill in the scoreboard?

Updating or changing the current voting system would be a good idea. I don’t want to see more countries leaving Eurovision….

Nils
Nils
8 months ago
Reply to  Otto

The aggregate vote really isn’t the ideal solution. But instead, it should be easy to simply reallocate the points of the cheating countries in a way which doesn’t change the results in terms of positions.

Yes, the aggregated votes had no effect whatsoever on the results this time. But that was actually merely a lucky coincidence.

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago

Azerbuyjan has no place in the contest. Jon Ola Sand was extremely tolerant with them and their manipulative tactics. ITV opened the door to corrupted juries and EBU’s tolerance lead to the magnitude of the scandal this year. That’s no excuse for corrupted broadcasters like TVR of course to complain for being caught, but it’s about time to kick out the masterminds and reform the rules.

AMAAN STORM
AMAAN STORM
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

THIS!

David & ThorBeta make the most sense in a sea of nonsense!

I totally agree with you both. Azerbaijan have honestly no place in the contest if they can’t play fair. I mean, what exactly is the grand prize here? Its not the Nobel Peace Prize! Its just a trophy to say you won a song contest that was designed to be a bit of fun and to bring countries together. The underhanded tactics go against the very nature of the contest. They should just leave if they can’t behave. Simple.

Alex
Alex
8 months ago

bye bye romania, the nerve though… cheating but blaming others than themselves. can they tell us why they invited the San Marino HoD in the Romanian national final….

Tom
Tom
8 months ago
Reply to  Alex

Also Montenegro, Czech, Albania, Macedonia

Alfie28
Alfie28
8 months ago

Al countries agree to ESC terms/conditions. ESC made a ruling, which Romania disagreed with. Romania can choose to participate in the future or not. Let’s leave it at that and move on.

Dawid
Dawid
8 months ago

Can I have a request? Please stop using country entries as thumbnails and use faces of broadcasters CEO’s or their logo instead. People like WRS get hate for something they had no influence on for no reason

nikki
nikki
8 months ago
Reply to  Dawid

YES please, WRS shouldn’t be involved in this mess. If there’s someone to blame, that’s the broadcaster – TVR

ThorBeta
ThorBeta
8 months ago
Reply to  Dawid

Yes please, I thought of that as well many times before and it looks so wrong to have pictures of WRS or Vladana when the article is all about their crappy broadcasters. Please remove their pictures

Dawid
Dawid
8 months ago
Reply to  ThorBeta

Nobody’s talking about Belarus, lol

Lorena
Lorena
8 months ago
Reply to  Dawid

Totally, he is great, so nice. He is basically in all the Spanish media this week and he is really lovely.