Don’t expect any bum notes at Melodi Grand Prix 2023. Norway’s Eurovision boss has confirmed that producers will allow the use of Auto-Tune in their national selection.
As you know, the software corrects out-of-tune vocal performances, altering the output so it’s at the right pitch. Cher helped popularize the production technique way back in 1998 with her smash hit “Believe”
This rule change was not included in the press release that NRK sent out late last year. At the time producers outlined other changes, like the elimination of Automatic Qualifiers and duels in the semi-finals, but made no mention of this development.
Instead, NRK’s Stig Karlsen confirmed the news in an interview with Norwegian newspaper VG on Friday.
“MGP follows the development of the concert industry and music shows on TV, by allowing tuning of the lead vocal for MGP 2023,” he told the newspaper.
Of course, the Eurovision Song Contest does not allow for Auto-Tune. That means that the MGP 2023 winner really does need to know how to sing. And they do. Stig already tested their chops during live auditions.
“It is absolutely essential that the artists we select for MGP deliver at a high level, even without tuning,” he said. “In those cases where we do not know the artist’s performance level live, they are invited to an audition.”
Stig suggested that allowing Auto-Tune will improve the viewer experience. People are used to hearing Auto-Tune, which is now standard in recorded music, so it “gives the audience a similarly solid sound experience.”
And, he points out, a winning performance is about a lot more.
“A good vocalist must deliver on communication skills, power, rhythm and timing, empathy, attitude and timbre,” he said. “A vocalist is also carried by the individual character of the voice. Autotune is just one of several tools for correcting and optimizing the sound experience.”
The day Autotune is allowed at Eurovision is the day I stop watching forever. And I don’t trust Martin Oosterdahl at all so I fear that day is coming soon
Autotune hides the effort that it takes to actually sing well. That’ why ESC helps us weed out who can sing and who’s just a marketable face.
Every year there are a handful of singers who get caught out as having “a lot of help from the sound engineers’ when they can’t come close to reproducing the sound live. We don’t need to add more.
I’m very “Procede with Caution” about AutoTune. I feel like it can be used well if not used as a crutch. I don’t see this rule staying very long, however.
MGP and ESC are special because they use all live singing! That’s a bigger part of the joy of it than people realize I think. Every other music show uses auto-tune or recorded vocals, so keep ESC and all related shows live so we can enjoy a live performance.
I wouldn’t want to see singers use Auto-Tune to fix off key singing, but I don’t mind Auto-Tune if it’s used as an effect in a specific part of a song, like in Fly on the Wings of Love.
If any use of Auto-Tune is permitted than I’m against it and I hope this rule change doesn’t make its way to the ESC.
This is like telling Jakob Ingebrigtsen (Norway’s Olympic 1500m Champion) that he can use an e-scooter at the Norwegian Championships, even though he’ll still have to run unaided when it comes to the World Championships.
I expect Norway to flop during Eurovision, and remove Autotune for MGP 2024. So I’m not mad about this.
Give it 1 year to test, and gather feedback to fix the contest next year.
Not to mention the “1 Vote” rule will also most likely become revised in 2024. I don’t see how it isn’t damaging to the tournament overall.
The way to do better in 2024 is to fire Stig
Or Notway does qualify and nothing changes.
You assume everybody cares about aututunes or find it bad..
Majority of people can not even tell when something is autuned. And when do they do find out they will continue to not care about it. If people enjoy something they vill vote for it, autotune or not..
If you notice it, then the sound engineer did a bad job. It should be seamless.
I agree with you Denis if we’re discussing a studio recording. Even a synthetic voice would be enjoyable. But for a live performance, most of us want to hear a human being singing without enhancement.
Well, Daft Punk used autotune during live shows.Olsen Brothers used autotune and managed to win. Were people bothered then?
How many would be bothered? I doubt people would like a song less because they used autotune live. We often think Wiwibloggs somehow reflects the population at large but it does not.
Using technology for creative purposes is something completely different from using technology to cover someone’s inability to hit specific notes. Unfortunately, autotune is yet another step towards making Eurovision-related festivals (and perhaps even ESC itself at some point) artificial and devoid of raw emotion. Because yes the connection one can feel with the singer’s performance is very crucial: and whether NRK likes it or not, I have never felt a connection with an artificial performance
I hate the sound of autotune, but I’m screwed, because most people can’t even tell when it’s used. I’ve had countless arguments with different folks trying to convince them that there’s an autotune in something, while they “believed” there was none and argued me back. It sucks. And these days they’d put an autotune even on great singers for some reason. It’s either an artistic choice that the audience likes (nice theory) or a way to get people used to this new standard in order for the record labels to promote whoever they want to, even completely talentless “artists” (dark… Read more »
Thankfully Ulrikke doesn’t need it
No. NO. NO! The use of autotune destroys the ENTIRE principle of Eurovision and opens up for cheating!!
If you can’t sing, don’t go on a stage. Period.
I think people should watch this video to dispel misconceptions about autotune and pitch correction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05hTQC1CZko.
Thank you. It’s a very informative video. It’s good to know the difference between an autotune and a pitch correction, and was already aware that the latter is used in most of the studio cuts to a degree. I still think that a small or moderate use of pitch correction still showcases performer’s general ability and color of their voice. That’s why some studio cuts already feel like the voice of the performer isn’t strong enough. The individual differences still matter. However, when pitch correction is used in heavy doses, it kinda makes the performance seem drained of personality. Also,… Read more »
PS. While I and the author of this video understand the difference, does the Norwegian HOD? Does this mean that the autotune effect for songs that require it will be allowed, but the live vocals won’t be pitch-corrected on spot? Or does this mean that everything is on the table? From HOD’s words, it’s unclear.
Thanks for the addition! It’s a very informative and insightful video 🙂
Thank you. I saw this video quite a long time ago and I thought it would be relevant to bring up. I don’t want autotune at Eurovision obviously, but I felt like people needed to be more informed about it and not constantly think of it as “evil.” It’s a tool like anything else.
I second your opinion, I actually made a similar comment a while ago. Myself, I think auto-tune is actually a wonderful tool if used for creative purposes and experimentation
I just came there to say that I have listened to Norwegian snippets for 2023 and, boy, Elsie Bay’s “Love you in a Dream” is simply fantastic! I love everything about it and I picture it to fit perfectly on a Wednesday-themed TV show. I hope the rest of her song is just as hypnotic as the snippet. She’s my favourite of the national selection 2023 so far!
It’s a clip that makes me intensely curious about what’s going on beyond the bounds of the snippet. There seems to be some kind of ambitious structure beyond what we hear. It could be great.
I paid decent money to see Whitney Houston live back in 2010. She did not sing very well at all, some of the crowd were not happy. Some boos even. Still, she gave it her all and I gave her a standing ovation. Since then, I’ve seen Dolly Parton, Mariah Carey and Shania Twain – who all mimed from start to finish. The crowd went wild.
This reminds me of the sh*tstorm that Bad Bunny’s concerts in Mexico became. Yeah, most of it had to do with ticket sales, but friends that were able to attend one of the concerts in Mexico City last month told me that he did full playback and his performance –overall, was subpar. Everyone was mad.
Sounds bad. I didn’t know miming at concerts was even a thing until I saw Dolly. I’ve been to a lot, and these are the only three that have done it.
Yeah, and honestly I’d feel scammed (not to say disappointed and/or heartbroken) if I went to a concert just to see the artist doing that
At least they were very good mimers, and there was still a live band. Most people probably didn’t even notice. Look at Dolly at Glastonbury 2014 if you want to judge for yourself.
It’s disappointing to hear that Mariah Carey mimes. She is totally wooden on stage. The least that she could do is to sing LIVE!
It’s disappointing to hear about miming, but we’re going in that way with the contest. Within the next 10 years I’m fully expecting Sietse Bakker to tell us “Eurovision Fans” that allowing miming is another way the contest has evolved.
Myself, I wouldn’t put Finland into that bag of Norway and Sweden, given how Finland has usually underperformed at the contest and that they’ve always tried to give something different to the table, unlike Sweden and Norway.
I mean, why would they? Not long ago, Finland used to give most of its points to Sweden and Sweden seldom reciprocated, Finland owes nothing to them, so I also hope YLE has dignity and integrity
Also, they’ve always played by the book, so their recent success at the contest feels better after seeing the bigger picture
Keep in mind that Sanremo (Italy) was the first NF to allow the usage of autotune on main vocals. I think that it will be optional but entries that will necessarily need it will use it.
I clicked “NO” ….because the next step would be that we will get full playback. A singer should sing live. Hands down everybody.
This is about MGP but let’s say they would implement it at eurovision: would countries use this to bring genres and styles to the eurovision stage that wouldn’t be possible otherwise? Maybe one/two entries a year if we look at the amount of rock entries etc. we get. I don’t think that adds up to the sense of authenticity we would lose if this rule was implemented. Vocals are an important part of the performance and the live aspect is what makes it interesting. We can be certain that a lot of countries would use this rule to make their… Read more »
Also if enough broadcasters would use Autotune in their national finals it will only be a matter of time until it finds its way into the real eurovision song contest.
It’s not far fetched that if an artist that needs a lot of autotune to actually perform well wins in melodi grand prix, NRK might already ask the EBU to use autotune at eurovision this year.
Oh new argument: There are singers who might consider it an insult to compete in an autotune contest. The general viewer will find this new rule ridiculous and it could harm the contest in the credibility that it still has.
I am 100% certain Anouk wouldn’t have agreed to representing the Netherlands in 2013 if most of the competition was autotuned back then.
in a couple of years esc will probably introduce the same rule whether we like it or not. i’m personally against it, it’ll be abused just like they’re abusing the pre-rec, but what can we do.
In other words, Stig already heard some of his acts in these “live auditions” and quickly realized some of them **cough** umami tsunami **cough** needed auto-tune STAT!!! When loud backing vocals are no longer sufficient you might as well have lip syncing at this point.
That guy is the definition of the clown emoji. I pray these boys win and they go to Liverpool and fail. Unless they ask a *special permission* which I hope EBU has the dignity to decline
Vocoders and other voice-changing effects are FINE as it’s for creative purposes, but auto-tuning a voice to make it sound better than it is is NOT.
Auto-tune ruins the fun of potentially seeing someone’s live vocals flop (Spain 2017) or seeing them become a Eurovision vocal legend (Dami Im).
Let’s be real—I actually think they are just admitting what seems like was already happening at MGP. The audio on their shows always seemed incredibly processed and the “backing” vocals in most songs seemed like the “actual” vocals drowning out main singers. The amount of influence the Nordic broadcasters have over Eurovision is unlike any other delegations. You’ll know they’ll be pushing for this in the main contest and get it. Juries might as well be scrapped too as some of their criteria include vocal capacity which the addition of auto-tune will mask entirely.
Definitely not
As if it matters, they are still gonna have to pull out PR stunts to qualify.
I just hope that that formula wears out for them soon and they NQ if they keep doing that
If you had to chose only once, would you prefer to allow the use of “live autotuned vocals” or “pre-recorded vocals”? I actually don’t know myself.
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I don’t want it to be a way to hide bad vocal performances but, on the other hand, I love a lot of pop songs which heavily rely on autotune (I’m a big Daft Punk fan… and I don’t think that some of their songs would sound the same without autotune). For instance, I have Rakky Ripper in mind this year: hyperpop uses autotune, it’s part of the aesthetic. So a big NO for bad vocals camouflage, but why not for ‘style/arrangements’ reasons.
Like any tool, autotune can be easily abused.
I’ll miss the bum notes
You’d think they’d know the desire of modern audiences is for everything to be authentic. But here we are, television producers expressing a lack of understanding what the audience wants.
In my opinion, National Finals should try to prepare the performer for the ESC as much as possible. Parity between National Finals and the ESC is important when it comes to sound management, otherwise the broadcaster may end up sending an out-of-tune act to the ESC accidentally, and this may cause unnecessary friction at ESC rehearsals. Request: It might be fascinating to look at the history of out-of-tune singing at the ESC in an article, and why this has happened in the past. Not all cases are accidental, e.g. Portugal’s entries have sometimes used a rather unique approach to tonality,… Read more »
Not cool , but what really bothers me is my doubt that this will happen in eurovision one day. I’m not saying it’s gonna happen , i just say this possibility worries me.
Don’t forget EBU allows to use pre-recorded back vocals in Eurovision , just because a pandemic which is ALREADY over. Eurovision vocals must be 100% live no matter what
The in-authenticity will be ESC’s downfall.
Stig and martin will destroy Eurovision and turn it to European melodifestivalen
I think its a strange decision given how
the vocal at esc has to be live so, if Norway selected an act that clearly uses autotune, it could set them up for a fall at esc.
… or this may be testing grounds for ESC standards in the future?
Autotune doesn’t mean it’s not live.
Bad idea. Also, the day that Eurovision allows autotune, is the day that Eurovision’s popularity will start to plummed.
plummet*
I am indifferent or do not mind the move. For me a song is always what I look for rather than how well sung it is. I mean what is the point having a great voice if the song is only half-decent? It will not improve the song quality..
And it can b used for creative purpose which is actually very cool and can enhance performance..
> Swede
Spaniard….
I’m actually Mexican lmfao
I’m indifferent. At the end of the day I always vote for the song rather than how well it’s sung
If it’s not allowed at Eurovision, why allow it at a Eurovision NF?
That’s exactly my take on it. It’s a song contest and therefore it should be purely based on how someone can sing without any artificial elements added on to it. A real singer won’t rely on whistle and bells to fine tune their voice. You can either sing or you can’t. Full stop.
Your definition is a singing contest, not a song contest. It is quite a difference of words. The song is what most people vote and care for,not how well someone sings.
You can have a killer voice but a crap song, you will not get extra votes for voice. If a song is good then autotune will not matter. People will not enjoy it less because of autotunes.
Unpopular opinion alert: I actually agree with everything Stig says above. I really don’t see the difference between the singer and the rest of the audio experience. If someone is doing a lovely piano ballad, why is it important that the vocal is live but yet be perfectly happy that they are faking playing the piano? Or in the case of Sam Ryder at last year’s contest, why don’t we insist on him actually playing the guitar when he inexplicably wields it out at the end of his performance? What is most important to me is whether the performer builds… Read more »
I should clarify that I am an all or nothing kind of guy. If authenticity is important to the fandom, then the whole performance should be live. Everything we hear on the track should be performed live on the stage on the night.
It is only the unique obsession with the singer that troubles me in this argument.
You must not be familiar with this discussion because fans are always calling for live instruments. The reason why they’re not allowed is not because of performers not wanting them, but because they would be a technical disaster. Sound checks would add hours to the show’s length and sound engineers would need to perform miracles managing hundreds of channels. This is an unfortunate, but accepted, compromise in trying to provide a mostly live experience that is entertaining for millions of viewers. Getting away from live vocals is not a technical necessity and would flatten the competitive aspect of a contest.… Read more »
I don’t like the call for authenticity, since there is very little that is authentic about a Eurovision performance as it stands. Ultimately, I don’t see that it matters whether someone is singing live or not, and I am comfortable being in the minority.
Why bother turning up at all? A huge carbon footprint… for what?
There is still a visual element. And the connection at an emotional level. Plus the back-stories to get engaged in. Folks are different, I am happy to celebrate diversity.
Additionally, as I have already stated, the horse has already bolted. It is illogical to only care about the singer.
Not when it’s the last vestige of “live” that’s left.
Except it’s not a call for authenticity. Again, this is a competition. Vocal quality is one of the main elements we all use to judge who we will–and won’t–vote for. It’s a call for fairness.
At this pace, it won’t be long until drag races become more intense, genuine and entertaining
I’d say I’m fine with this as long as it’s used for creative purposes (it has many cool effects beyond just enhancing vocals), but we all know most known auto-tune users don’t do that, so I find this decision –at least, questionable
I don’t have a problem with auto-tune being used for creative purposes, on small parts of a performance. But I’m completely against allowing it to cover up bad vocals. It bothered me already that the last Norwegian entry made what I consider an excessive use of recorded vocals to favor choreography, even more knowing that the guys behind Subwoolfer’s masks can actually sing pretty well.
Completely with you on this. Occasional songs sound better in live when parts of the backing vocals, transitions or certain effects are changed in pitch. In the end, this is primarily a song contest, and I’ll always vote for a 10/10 song with a 7/10 vocals rather than the other way around. Still, there is an irreplacible charm in hearing the song *actually* live on stage. That should be so, both in ESC, and all national selections. In fact, aside from said exceptions where replicating live would be impossible, I’m all for removing pre-recorded backing vocals as well. Live should… Read more »
Just like you, I always try to put the song first. After all, it’s a song contest. But it’s tricky to judge an Eurovision entry… It’s impossible to ignore that there’s someone performing it (well or not), that since it’s televised show, the aesthetics, ligthing, costumes, choreography, graphics and camera angles will influence on how good the final product is… Not even mentioning things that are even more subjective than our taste, like the likeability of the people on the stage, or our expectations about what Eurovision should be about. But concerning vocals, I guess you called the big problem:… Read more »
Agreed. There’s so many elements that get into the assessing of Eurovision songs, and vocals is just one, even if a very important one. ”They should matter only if someone is seriously off and ruin the material, or if someone is so good that took it to another level.” Sure, give an additional point to Elina Nechayeva and Eugent Bushpepa, and take a point away after Yuliya Samoylova and Serhat’s semi-final performances. But there are so many levels in between, and the reception can be very personal. For example, I know that some people like Roxen’s performance of Amnesia even… Read more »
Sadly, I think most jurors simply don’t care about the lyrics. And maybe there’s even a cultural element concerning it. It’s quite easy to point which countries give them more importance, just by paying attention to their national finals. Of course I’m not saying each song has to be a lyrical masterpiece to be appreciated or even to do well in Eurovision. Sometimes, simple lyrics, that go right to the point and convey an universal message are more than enough. And we can also have songs with great lyrics, but that fail on melody, performance, presentation, etc. But I believe… Read more »
Sanremo has allowed this for years, yet no one complains about it.
This might bite back at Eurovision, if a winning song has parts that rely on auto-tune.
“People are used to hearing Auto-Tune, which is now standard in recorded music, so it “gives the audience a similarly solid sound experience.””
^ This is such an incredibly stupid take that I just can’t. We’re all in real danger of having proper vocal “wow” moments being completely removed from Eurovision because of this absurdity and protection of the mediocre.
They should have invited also Luna Ki then
Hopefully we don’t have another issue where a performance sounds really good at the national final because of autotune but the singers can’t hit the notes at Eurovision. And yes, I’m talking about Brividi, which was my favorite song prior to Eurovision last year.
stupid ideas – next level!
when they flop this year because they choose a bad vocalist I hope they realise this rule change was at fault
Let them dance/pose on playback and get over with.
What is ESC turning to? Pathetic.
At this point, make a lipsync battle drag-style and that would be more entertaining LOL!
As long as it is forbidden at Eurovision I don’t care do they allow autotune or not, but for artists it’s better to sing with live vocals as they can’t do it at ESC anyway and their performance would feel disappointing. Good thing of this tho is that this increases the chance of Jone winning MGP 2023 as his song slaps. 🙂
I mean, Sanremo does it for years now, no? This doesn’t mean that everything will autotuned, but that occasional songs that require it at parts can use it. Grab the Moment comes to mind. This year, probably the one from Jona. That female backing vocal is certainly touched upon. I mean, the are aware that excessive autotune makes song sound bad, right? I would hope so.
I’m not sure it’s the same, at all. Sanremo allows it as a creative tool, used as the artist desires. Not to cover up bad singing.