Photo: Sarah Louise Bennett / EBU

Shortly before the Eurovision 2024 grand final, an event occurred that nobody ever saw coming. A contestant that qualified for the final 26 was disqualified. Joost Klein‘s disqualification sent shock waves through the world of Eurovision, especially in the “Europapa” star’s home country of the Netherlands. 

The flow of accusation and speculation flowed heavy within the space of a day. So we’re going to summarise and reconstruct the disqualification as it happened to see what the EBU and the Dutch broadcaster can learn from it.

Joost Klein’s disqualification: A short reconstruction

Those who followed @eurovision on Instagram on 9 May – the night of semi-final two – could see that the contest’s official account uploaded a set of stories in which each artist walked from the stage into a corridor. Some were overjoyed, others were more emotional. Dons from Latvia was perhaps the most teary, after he delivered a stirring rendition of “Hollow”. His delegation – like so many others – greeted their singer and led them into the green room behind the LED screen in the arena. 

However, one country’s walk to the green room was not uploaded. This was the Netherlands. While us Dutchies noticed, many others would have glossed over it.

That evening, members of our team in the press room got a tip that Joost may have shoved a photographer. We assumed at the time that it was an accident or the result of being in a crowded space.

The road to disqualification

But things took a turn the next day. We all know what happened on Friday afternoon. Joost Klein attended the flag parade during dress rehearsals for the final, but then didn’t rehearse. People took to social media to guess precisely what happened. In hindsight, the silence of the EBU was not strange as a police investigation was taking place on the scene and it’s customary (and in many countries mandatory) to keep details under wraps amid an ongoing investigation.

It was eventually the well-informed Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet who reported that Joost Klein had allegedly harassed a female staff member working in production. Lithuanian broadcaster LRT reported from the scene that they had seen the Dutch delegation leave the arena, packing their bags. 

As we all know, on Saturday morning, it was revealed that the EBU had come to the decision to officially disqualify the Netherlands from taking part in the final of the contest. Joost Klein became the first-ever contestant to be expelled in such a way.

The Netherlands, however, did not lose their right to vote. AVROTROS later withdrew their spokesperson, leading Executive Supervisor Martin Österdahl to reveal – amidst loud booing – the Dutch jury result. After the results were revealed on early Sunday, Joost Klein had scored 182 points in the semi-final, finishing second overall that night.

Was a disqualification fair and what went wrong?

In most of Europe, there has been a recent shift on codes of conducts at work places. Especially after more and more people speak out on abuse at work. With this, the EBU has uploaded their own code of conduct online, including for press members and other accredited individuals. In this code of conduct, any acts of aggression are described as “forbidden behaviour”.

In that sense, theoretically, the EBU followed up on their own rules.

Comparisons with other incidents and reports of misbehaviour within Malmö Arena made the disqualification a bit more unexpected, and perhaps made many feel that the EBU did the Dutch entry an injustice. However, many fans will likely agree with the opinion that it is totally not okay to make any person working on the floor of the contest feel unsafe. 

The EBU has the right to protect their own staff at the end of the day. That said, any delegation deserves the right to protect their own contestants.

In recent years, we have seen delegations making special provisions for their entrants prior to the event. For example, Norway’s Agnete was allowed to skip press conferences when she took part in the 2016 edition – opening up about her bipolar disorder. Portugal’s Salvador Sobral did not attend any rehearsals in the first rehearsal week as a result of his heart condition at the time.

AVROTROS hinted at a potential special proposition made for Joost Klein at Eurovision 2024. As they wrote in their statement, they regarded filming Joost Klein entering the corridor “against clearly made agreements”. What these agreements entailed exactly, and with whom they were made, remains unknown.

AD’s insiders claim they “saw it coming”

In the weeks leading up to Eurovision, Dutch daily newspaper Algemeen Dagblad attempted to create a portrait of Joost Klein as a person. The star generally refuses interviews to traditional media. AD tried to gain insight into his character through interviews with people from his surroundings and childhood. 

Several people hinted at the fact that Joost’s traumatic childhood has put a larger strain on him than it looks on the outside. Some classed him as vulnerable and wondered whether a pressure cooker like Eurovision was the right place for him. AD said that one person they spoke to from his surroundings “questioned how much pressure he could take”. That person then said, in a quote that was not published in the newspaper back then prior to Eurovision

“It is a boy who lost both their parents at the ages of 12-13 and then did not get the right support. He is a traumatised victim of his own life, to what extent can he oversee what is waiting for him in Malmö? He really wants to take part in the contest, but should you expose him as a human to such a complicated event?”

Joost Klein is used to controlling everything. But, speaking to AD prior to the incident, the Dutch artist felt like this was slipping away: 

“I have always had the control. And that was the first thing I lost when I arrived in Malmö.”

In an interview with AD after the final, an anonymous insider from Joost’s surroundings said that they “saw it coming” that the “Europapa” singer would fall into a conflict, calling him “vulnerable”.

Could it have been prevented? 

What could have prevented the incident from happening? Clearly, for some reason, it was not properly understood by the EBU staff that Joost Klein did not want to be filmed. How come the misunderstanding? Did AVROTROS not communicate this with the EBU? Or did they communicate this beforehand and did the EBU not follow up on this? 

Did AVROTROS underestimate the exact support that Joost Klein needed at the contest? The responsibility to inform the EBU on artists with special needs should lie with the broadcasters in the first place. And then it’s the responsibility of the EBU to accommodate those needs. 

Besides that, if Joost Klein suffers from flashbacks, as is often the case with people suffering from trauma, where was his support when he needed it the most? Why was there nobody around to catch him after the performance? And if there was someone, why did they not do anything to prevent the incident? The woman who filmed there, judging by the @eurovision Instagram stories, stood at the same spot the whole evening. Where was the Dutch delegation? Where was AVROTROS? 

These are perhaps the next questions we should ask ourselves when dissecting the incident at hand.

What can we learn from the Joost Klein’s disqualification?

One of the most important takeaways from this contest is probably the way we treat contestants and how people should behave towards one another. There should be better protection for artists, as several have described this Eurovision to be “traumatic” or “tense”

Most people taking part in the Eurovision Song Contest are young artists with little experience, and sometimes with no backing or support lines. For many, this is the first time they are in the spotlight. For several years, we have seen some young stars falter because of the pressure of it all.

Eurovision 2009 winner Alexander Rybak shared his struggles with addiction in 2020 – saying his addiction started around the moment he started to become a favourite at the contest. Other acts that did not do so well at the contest, have also shared their struggles in the past. 

Unfortunately, some artists come with baggage. That could be trauma, an underlying condition, or a mental health struggle amongst others. It is important that in the future, artists and delegation members are well looked after. Better looked after than this year. 

Next to that, it is important to realise that the people who work behind the scenes are just people too, doing their job. The lack of support for the woman who made a report to the police is also astonishing for several fans. Imagine if it was you. She could have been a fan of the song and is definitely a fan of the contest. You do not file a report to the police for fun. There is never a reason for any kind of aggression against any person within the Eurovision bubble. 

Eurovision used to be a safe space for artists and fans, and it should remain that way in the future.

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Marcus
Marcus
30 days ago

Ok, I would say that’s exactly the thing that’s going on here. We demand from others that they treat us in a respectful and supporting way, avoiding anything that could hurt or traumatize us (again). On the other hand, when we look at others, we often like to simplify things, have no problems being disrespectful and rude, even if this could hurt or traumatize the other person. It’s like in this conflict, where both sides only see their own suffering, but not the suffering on the other side, and no one feels responsible for the mess they find themselves in.

Frisian esc
30 days ago

The worst thing of all? I think the irony of our disqualification at eurovision with the most pro eurpean song will extremely affect the european elections next month. I expect way less pro european votes.

Basti
Basti
30 days ago
Reply to  Frisian esc

Devide and conquer 😉

Basti
Basti
30 days ago
Reply to  Basti

divide *

Greg B.
Greg B.
30 days ago
Reply to  Frisian esc

LOL.

You have more jokes like that?

Frisian esc
30 days ago
Reply to  Greg B.

You’ll see next month

FizzPunk
FizzPunk
25 days ago
Reply to  Frisian esc

ik wilde eerst niet gaan stemmen.
Maar schrijf nu EUROPAPA met stift op het stembiljet.

Lawrence Gibb
Lawrence Gibb
30 days ago

I have had more level and informed discussions with 12 year olds about serious issues than most of you Speculation and rumour. presented as facts. Well here are the only facts we know.

A complaint of verbal assault and threatening language was made to the police and a 26 year old man was questioned in connection with the complaint.

Swedish Prosecuters are reviewing the case and will make a decision soon whether or not to mount a full legal process.

Jonas
Jonas
30 days ago
Reply to  Lawrence Gibb

What would you have done if YOU were Martin Österdahl?

Part of me is just releasing my pent up frustrations on the poor man as a way of release. I’m not always serious. I suppose he had so much on his plate already, set protocol to follow, all he had time to do was make the snap decision to turn the entire thing over to civic authorities. I’m in a generous mood, but in someways I feel sorry for him.

We are all born as a human beings

Well known Japanese
Well known Japanese
30 days ago

JUST?ONE WORD
Ban ISRAEL

Anonymous91
Anonymous91
30 days ago

we need a arab representation entry next year tbh, i put UTN1 forward, awesome group from Iraq

”Jamila” of theirs is almost as magical and pure music as ”amar pelos dois” honestly

juliana
juliana
30 days ago

I really appreciate this article.. really well written.. my heart is also wrenched for all of them.. I wish nothing like this ever happen again

poe-tay-toe chips
poe-tay-toe chips
30 days ago

Recently heard now that apparently an EBU employee came out on tiktok saying that he didn’t even break the camera? He only turned around and more or less said something along the lines of “stop f*****g filming me or I’ll break the camera”

And sure that’s technically a threat to property but like..disqualification is so overboard here if it’s true.

Same person also claims it was someone from Israel’s delegation who called the police.

Barry
Barry
30 days ago

Do you have the link?

poe-tay-toe-chips
poe-tay-toe-chips
30 days ago
Reply to  Barry

wiwi keeps saying awaiting approval but there’s an article on boredpanda where the tiktok is linked

Barry
Barry
30 days ago

I’ve found two video’s at the Goviraluk account. I am not into TikTok but it’s labeled as ‘AI generated’. That doesn’t really sound trustworthy to me.

Leendert Jan
Leendert Jan
30 days ago

Yeah, maybe we shouldn’t have been thinking just about how beautiful this contrast between party sounds and sad lyrics was, but also about whether someone with PTSD would be able to handle Eurovision. Which seems like a machine that gobbles up it’s artists.

Sal
Sal
1 month ago

EU fans are so hypocritical and have double-standards.

Example:
Eurofan: “OMG ISRAEL IS UNDER INVESTIGATION FOR WAR CRIMES BAN THEM!!!”
Same Eurofan: “JOOST IS ONLY UNDER INVESTIGATION WHAT HAPPENED TO INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY???”

Make it make sense people.

Rory
Rory
1 month ago
Reply to  Sal

Do you honestly think that a country being accused of war crimes by the ICCJ works the same way as an individual person being investigated for pushing a camera away from them too forcefully? You can’t compare them.

Amy Kelly
Amy Kelly
29 days ago
Reply to  Rory

thank you, Rory. That was such a ridiculous comparison.

Maria
Maria
30 days ago
Reply to  Sal

You have no right to compare a small incident (according to the police with w a r crimes

Maria
Maria
1 month ago

Barely two weeks ago we were worried about a blue bird, can we please turn back the time, please, please

Pollaski
Pollaski
1 month ago

Sounds like a lot of words excusing bad behavior.

If you cant handle the fact that you might be filmed at a mass media event then maybe the Eurovision Song Contest isnt right for you.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  Pollaski

The tone of the entire post is so subtly misogynistic that I could feel my eyes welling up.

Pollaski
Pollaski
30 days ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

What in the blue hell does gender have to do with anything?

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  Pollaski

Maybe I misunderstood your point, but I was agreeing with you and also adding some of my own impressions.
An article written by a man, essentially excusing another man abusing a woman. Maybe I’m being overly sensitive, but it is what it is.

Pollaski
Pollaski
30 days ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

My bad. I thought you were talking about my comment lol.

Still I dont see it as a gender thing. Would it really be any different if the genders were reversed?

Emkay
Emkay
30 days ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

you are being overly sensitive. also sounds like projecting your own personal trauma onto this situation where there is no misogyny present.

Carla
Carla
29 days ago
Reply to  Pollaski

He didn’t want to be filmed at one specific moment ; right after his performance. Because of him being emotional. They had an agreement about that. So yeah, this camera lady should have stayed away from him.

FizzPunk
FizzPunk
29 days ago
Reply to  Carla

Joost is very camera and media-engaged. He started his own YT vids on a young age.
In the run up of ESC24 many awesome footages have been created by him and his team.
Joost and the dutch delegation communicated to the swedish broadcaster and other social media present NOT being filmed when he got back off stage.

They infringed this and he reacted.

Carla
Carla
29 days ago
Reply to  FizzPunk

That is correct.

Carla
Carla
29 days ago
Reply to  Pollaski

So when you have some kind of mental problems, you should not have the opportunity to participate?
No, everyone should feel safe enough to do so.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
1 month ago

Reading all the Joost apologists’ posts over the last week or so has been such an disheartening exoerience. Makes me wonder if some of you ever really, truly talked to someone who’s been a subjet of physical, emotional or sexual abuse, as a child and/or an adult.
I swear some of you are comfortably livimg in your own little bubbles.

Sebas
Sebas
1 month ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

Stop bringing sexual abuse in to this story, you’re crazy.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
1 month ago
Reply to  Sebas

I am not bringing anything. I was speaking generally. Shame on you.

Barry
Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

‘speaking generally’ that’s just the problem.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry

ABOUT ABUSE IN GENERAL!
STOP TRYING TO EXCUSE IT!
You can’t be so thick. But I guess some of you will go out of your way…
Amd this is precisely why so many victims keep quiet.

musica
musica
1 month ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

People like you are the reason why victims of real abuse don’t get taken seriously. You don’t even know what happened, none of us do, but we do know that there wasn’t any physical or sexual violence involved… so why even mention those.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  musica

You are talking to one. Talked, actually, since I won’t be biting anymore.

Barry
Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

You don’t have to shout. Then I feel myself harassed. Punish someone for something ‘general’ doesn’t belong in a democracy. You have to know exactly what happened. If that means disqualification then they have to substantiated that very well. After a week we heard almost nothing except that it wasn’t physical.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  Barry

Harassed? Oh that’s rich?
I think we heard enough. Do you really think police got involved for nothing?
Stop downplaying this for God’s sake!

Maria
Maria
30 days ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

What abuse, according to the police it was a small incident, don’t frame him

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

You are framing it and that’s not okay, especially because at his point we don’t know the exact circumstances, innocent until proven guilty.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  Maria

I’ll tell what’a not okay! Standing up for a clown bully!

Cos
Cos
30 days ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

Who is a clown bully here ! manipulating others what to believe or not. You should go back to your own small lonely bubble. Period

Maria
Maria
30 days ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

What you are doing is called framing and that’s about the same

Rory
Rory
1 month ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

What a reach. We don’t have the full details yet, so trying to compare it to physical or sexual abuse of a child is a bit premature.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  Rory

You’re obviously talking out of your a**, so I’ll leave you to it.
I am only sad that the EBU didn’t take out ALL the trash this year, especially the facist and genocidal ones.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

Guilty until proven innocent?

Lawrence Gibb
Lawrence Gibb
1 month ago

If the maxim no publicity is bad publicity us right then Joost Klein and Eurovision will do very well out of this beyond the fan bubble.

Lisa
Lisa
30 days ago
Reply to  Lawrence Gibb

His number of followers on social media has doubled since last friday, and Europapa’s streams on spotify and other outlets went through the roof.

Ellen
Ellen
1 month ago

Translation: it’s ok to be violent with the crew members, especially a woman, and get away with it because the fandom will always support the man. Eden would do that and she would be treated as the worst serial k*ller out here.

I’m really disgusted by how the fandom is finding excuses to Joost behavior. He’s a shame to his parents.

musica
musica
1 month ago
Reply to  Ellen

What an absolutely disgusting comment. Do you Israelis have no shame?

Ellen
Ellen
30 days ago
Reply to  musica

I’m not Israeli. I’m Black, half English and French, Christian woman. So stop assuming things to justify your hate towards Israelis.

musica
musica
30 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

I’ve noticed some particularly tasteless behavior and comments from Israelis regarding Joost lately, because somehow they seem to think he’s an antisemite. If you’re not one of them, I’m sorry… but your comment is still absolutely reprehensible and if you don’t realize that you’re beyond saving.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Ellen

Comments like this on social media and by members of that delegation were the reason why Joost faced difficulties during Eurovision, thank you for illustrating it.

Pollaski
Pollaski
1 month ago
Reply to  Maria

So youre saying its okay to lash out because your feels got hurt on social media?

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Pollaski

No not exactly

Ellen
Ellen
30 days ago
Reply to  Maria

What a joke. He wasn’t that shy to play the idi*t with Kaarija in front of millions of followers and now he’s suddenly facing difficulties? Stop finding excuses for that man. Vi*lence is vi*lence, no matter the degree. Shame on him

Cos
Cos
30 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

Shame on you too , practically you don’t like Joost klein the way you judged him like there’s full of hate inside you toward him. Did you ever take a good look at the mirror reflecting yourself maybe you want to be like him because he’s being likes by so many fans or maybe you are jealous of him because you can’t achieve what he did.

FizzPunk
FizzPunk
29 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

Shame on you, in convicting a person already without all details brought out in the open.

Eden herself did nothing wrong, but she is representing a country comiting warcrimes in the moment. She stepped fully aware in this disputed contest. So no sorries for her.

They shouldnt have been there in the first place.
V!olence = v1olence in the first place, no matter if its 35K!!
or a broken camera……………………..Never Lies.

Rory
Rory
1 month ago
Reply to  Ellen

Why do you have to bring his parents into it? That’s nasty. We don’t know the details of the situation yet, I’m not gonna make a judgement either way until we know what actually happened.

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

From what I’ve read, Eden has her full equipment ready, guns and s***; was just waiting for the ESC to be over and done, so you”re not that far off with your comment. Future is looking genocidally bright for her.

Ellen
Ellen
30 days ago
Reply to  Vjera Brdar

Making up things again. Where are the proof?

Vjera Brdar
Vjera Brdar
30 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

I most certainly am not. How rude. Read up on it. Go Google Eden Golan military service.

Cos
Cos
30 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

If Eden is a smart woman and have mind of her own she would took a step back to represent the country knowing what was going on . But she want fame but unfortunately fame turn into a huge Boo . She choose for fame so she have to take the consequences for it
Threatening is not translated into murder or k* lling

Well known Japanese
Well known Japanese
30 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

Every day Israel kills many Palestine children.
Are you finding every excuse of Israel?

Lisa
Lisa
30 days ago
Reply to  Ellen

The thing is, pushing a camera away when you are being filmed without your consent and not listened to when you ask them to stop does can not be described as violence against a woman (or against a man if it had been a man, don’t even know why her sex is always mentioned, because it is totally irrelevant in this case). It is self protection. So nobody is defending violence, there simply was none. If he had smacked her in the face or pushed her to the ground or something like that , nobody would defend that, not even… Read more »

Rich
Rich
1 month ago

Not really a contribution to what we already know. Maybe even too soon if this is the content you bring. Sentence like : l However, many fans will likely agree with the opinion that it is totally not okay to make any person working on the floor of the contest feel unsafe. “ is making me feel sick in my stomache. A director of a professional Dutch camera crew company stated it correctly: if we get a job we always have a brief. We’re very honored as camera crew to be part of an event and we must realize that… Read more »

Arc
Arc
1 month ago
Reply to  Rich

This is poor justification. Blaming the victim, because she was there, doing her job, same as she did with other artists. Whatever issues Joost has, there is no justification for overreacting in this way. And he had whole team with him, that team should remove him from triggering situations.

Arc
Arc
1 month ago
Reply to  Arc

I still agree ( based on what we know so far ) that disqualification was extreme measure. But to be honest, untill we know more, we need to assume that this decision was justified.

MaggieMayhem
MaggieMayhem
1 month ago
Reply to  Arc

Read the above comment again…They are not blaming the victim. The EBU is responsible for the actions of their workers.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Arc

No one is blaming the alleged victim its’ about the EBU and what they should have done.

Maria
Maria
30 days ago
Reply to  Arc

Alleged victim and there are two ways to do a job, good or bad, we can’t tell yet what was the case because the EBU is withholding info

Ivars
Ivars
1 month ago

Thanks for a well written article. This tragedy must never be repeated. Of course, there are many sides to the story of Joost’s disqualification. However, disqualification is an extreme measure which affects a large number of people. It is mind boggling that the EBU was unable to come up with other options for handling the situation.

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago

EBU director Noel Curran has replied to the European Commission’s concerns about the ban of the EU flag at this year’s

https://twitter.com/ESCdiscord/status/1791112199647232313

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago
Reply to  Ricardo

In short: the EBU caved in.

Barry
Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Ricardo

I have an EU flag in my drivers license and it’s written on my passport. So there are no valid arguments to prohibit this flag next to the national flag.

Seddik
Seddik
1 month ago
Reply to  Ricardo

European flag. Not EU flag.

Karl
Karl
1 month ago

Israeli outlet Ynet confirms Eden Golan’s televote advertising campaign was organised by the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/sykjyhaza

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

Yep! It’s confirmed! Astroturfing at its best. From the article: “The support Golan received from the European audience was preceded by a campaign by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the government publicity office for Eurovision fans, in which the Israeli representative addressed them in French, Italian, Spanish, German, Czech, Latvian, Estonian, Albanian, Georgian and English – and asked them to vote for her.”  “The videos taken by Golan were uploaded to a dedicated YouTube channel and received more than 14 million views. The campaign appealed to audiences selected based on a careful analysis of the voting patterns of countries… Read more »

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

DQ asap

Rory
Rory
1 month ago
Reply to  Karl

You mean they attempted to use the contest as a propaganda tool like everyone said they would? What a massive shock and surprise.

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago

When will see the Zapruder tapes?

Barry
Barry
1 month ago

Well written piece, but I only miss some other questions: Why did they make a sexist report of the incident? It doesn’t matter if it’s a woman. This can only lead to much worse speculation. If nothing has been proven before the Grand Final why the heaviest sanction of a disqualification. Isn’t he innocent until proven guilty? The police quickly reported that there was no use of physical violence. Why criminalize him and a whole country by denying their presence at this ‘party’. And why didn’t the woman stop filming after being asked several times. Is provocation ‘doing your job’?… Read more »

musica
musica
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry

You know why they reported he “assaulted a woman”. To get public opinion to turn against Joost.

Alex
Alex
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry

Isn’t it ridiculous that we still got zero details about this incident?

We dont know how serious it was and we still don’t know why NL was not allowed to participate with a clip from the sf performance like Iceland 2021.

EBU has failed big time

Double standards…the Israeli delegation harrassing many countries, yet their accreditations were not revoked.

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry

Dog whistling! They wanted to throw him under the bus. They allowed the circulation of horrible rumors and did nothing to squash them.

EurovisionSteve
EurovisionSteve
1 month ago

We as fandom also need to be more responsible. There is a lot of social media presence. There are many Eurovision fan sites that cover the contest. All the pre-parties and satellite events around Eurovision week. This needs to be scaled down – for the sake of the artists and their physical and mental health, and also to reduce expenses. Do we really need to see everything that is happening backstage? We fuel a lot of the extra attention and material that is provided because those in charge seek to gain from feeding the masses. Eurovision has often been lifted… Read more »

Lawrence Gibb
Lawrence Gibb
1 month ago

The contest has become too big, not in terms of the number of contestants but in its perceived importance. Players like Israel and Ukraine want a position on the global stage to highlight their current situations and have stated that openly. When the wall came down in 1989, the EBU was literally inundated with applications by the newly liberated eastern and central European broadcasters whose political masters saw the contest as providing them with European credentials before they were admitted to the EU. The contest has always been invertly political. The massive increase in social media in the past decade,… Read more »

Lawrence Gibb
Lawrence Gibb
1 month ago
Reply to  Lawrence Gibb

Sorry, I am not a bad speller – anonymity: and pre-show.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago

We need to stay respectful, that’s it, so many people were saying joost used his deceased parents in order to get votes… how low can you go.

Alaska
Alaska
1 month ago
Reply to  Maria

I remember in 2017 this forum being invaded by hoards of commentators claiming that Salvador Sobral was faking a heart disease to get pity votes…

Lawrence Gibb
Lawrence Gibb
1 month ago
Reply to  Alaska

So do I

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Alaska

That’s awful as well

NoMoreEscAddicted
NoMoreEscAddicted
1 month ago

I really hope it’s the only one and last time we see that in Eurovision….It could have been avoided for sure, the two parties are responsible of that, Ebu is responsible of the contestants and esc workers safety and well being and the Dutch team and broadcaster are responsible of their participant again more if this participant is very vulnerable, so it seems the two parties have not done their jobs correctly as it should be.

Where I Belong
Where I Belong
1 month ago

The ESC should have been protected from Joost, not the other round.

musica
musica
1 month ago

It was specifically Eurovision’s social media policy that Joost just couldn’t stand, he said he questioned their moral compass (and he wasn’t wrong about that). When they occasionally did get him to appear in one of their posts he ridiculed them. I think at some point he just snapped and said “f.ck off”. It may have been wrong, and at the wrong person, but EBU were all too eager to get rid of him. He just doesn’t fit the mold.

Karl
Karl
1 month ago

Get rid of the f^cking “producer’s choice” spots. How the hell did the delegations agree to that?

Ari
Ari
1 month ago

Also, what if something technical in the performance goes wrong? What about the camera malfunction of the Austrian performance? Is it just crossed off as bad luck or does the country get a discount for next year? Imagine this happened to an entry that wasn’t hopeless in the voting. Would it get to perform again? I know those who had stage invaders were offered to perform again, Spain 2010 did, UK 2018 didn’t. A technical thing doesn’t seem to get you that. Estonia 2017?

Aaron
Aaron
1 month ago
Reply to  Ari

If I recall correctly Surie was offered to perform again but she said no?
I could be wrong though

Ari
Ari
1 month ago
Reply to  Aaron

That’s what I wrote.

Lawrence Gibb
Lawrence Gibb
1 month ago
Reply to  Ari

Indeed you did.

Euan Crabb
Euan Crabb
1 month ago
Reply to  Aaron

No your correct Surie did get chance to perform again but she said no.

Alex
Alex
1 month ago
Reply to  Aaron

Austria was not offered the chance to perform again.

Lawrence Gibb
Lawrence Gibb
1 month ago
Reply to  Aaron

Shewas but she felt so overwhelmed and shaken by what had happened that she couldn’t perform again.

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago
Reply to  Lawrence Gibb

I don’t think that was it. SuRie felt that she held her head up high, and finished the song. She felt no need to repeat, in keeping with the spirit of the song. She showed such resilience, a repeat might somewhat undermine that. Storms don’t last forever.

Sun
Sun
1 month ago

Almost a week later and the exact reasons are still not known. 1/ Any person should be protected in their workplace, that is logical in any self-respecting country. 2/ Joosh is reportedly a vulnerable person and as such must also be protected and rules were reportedly established regarding him to ensure his mental safety. If that was so, why did EBU, as responsible for the safety of its workers and participants, not strictly comply with those agreements? Why, as a vulnerable person, were sufficient support and security measures not taken, as was done with the Israeli singer? Perhaps it was… Read more »

Paul Sorenson
Paul Sorenson
1 month ago
Reply to  Sun

From what we know now, it seems AvroTros didn’t support and coach him.
It seems like the Dutch team didn’t waited for him and protected him immediately after he walked off the stage after his performance.

Many unexpected things can happen during Eurovision, and also in life and performances after Eurovision. Artists have to be prepared for that.
Any artist needs coaching, especially a vulnerable person.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul Sorenson

Where did you get this information? I think I heard exactly the same words in RTL blvd, but it was pure guesswork.

xoxofromPoland
xoxofromPoland
1 month ago

nah, EBU just should consider listening to delegations… idon’t care about this war and im on none of the sides in this conflict but israeli delegation was just a bunch of sad people that felt like 5 year olds “im gonna trigger you the whole time and youcan’t do nothing about it”

Paul Sorenson
Paul Sorenson
1 month ago
Reply to  xoxofromPoland

That israeli journalist asked him questions only one day after Joost’s incident with the Swedish camera woman.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul Sorenson

Not him his crew, in a very annoying way

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago
Reply to  xoxofromPoland

And Keren Peles was filming him without his consent, while making fun of him with other members of the Israeli delegation.

3art
3art
1 month ago

I also wonder if the EBU purposefully placed Joost between the two Israeli singers in the final to create more drama

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago
Reply to  3art

I think Luxembourg came back after a 31-year absence purposefully to upset Joost.

Ari
Ari
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonas

They nailed it. Impressive!

RenAigu
RenAigu
1 month ago
Reply to  3art

Well at that point the drama already happened.

Dawid
Dawid
1 month ago

Lesson for every delegation: next year this could be you

Fatima
Fatima
1 month ago

I feel that the schedules are too much for the acts, particularly those in the second semi who have little rest before the Grand Final, especially if they are drawn early. My solution, let’s not have staging which is so complicated that the transitions also need rehearsing. Let juries vote on the final only so that the night before show is still just a rehearsal, and drop the “family show” to give everyone some breathing space.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago

In a normal year Joost would have managed perfectly, but this year EBU lost control over the event and it was a huge mess, Staff and participants suffered from the very high tension. AVRO/TROS did not know this in advance. Joost became a victim of it and the EBU chose the easiest solution… get rid of him. All parties involved would have been better off when they had solved this behind the scenes, with a couple of good conversations. It’s wrong what he did to the photographer, but Zero tolerance does not have to mean Zero understanding.

Roo
Roo
1 month ago

Too much content produced for social media. When I watched the contest around the 2000s I was just happy to be able to watch all the songs on youtube but now we have all this backstage stuff. We already cut back on rehearsal footage. What goes on behind stage should stay there. Very stressful I can imagine. All these press conferences too could be cut back on I am sure.

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago
Reply to  Roo

It doesn’t even make sense to me. Social media is the enemy of traditional broadcasters, it keeps people AWAY from their television sets.

Why does a union of public broadcasters chase it so much? To lure the youngfolk back, or encourage them to visit for the first time?

Encouraging the use of TikTok etc. might get the EBU some one-night-only visitors, but long-term it will only hurt.

Existential questions.

shwep
shwep
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonas

As someone who majored in media studies, I can assure you that social media aren’t really “the enemy.” These days, different kinds of media tend to converge and supplement one other. You can have TV on the Internet, and also Internet content on traditional TV.

Yeah, so I guess it’s more of a question of how we’re affected by the omnipresence of communication, that expectation of being available 24/7, especially as a public person. So it’s bigger than just Eurovision.

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago
Reply to  shwep

I see what you mean, thank you. From the perspective of traditional television broadcasters, though, I do think streaming services are a weight around their neck.

Arch
Arch
1 month ago
Reply to  Roo

This.

Paul Sorenson
Paul Sorenson
1 month ago
Reply to  Roo

Joost made big use of TikTok for his marketing to go viral in March, though.
I agree social media is too much, but then artists shouldn’t use it all, not only when it suits them.

I think AvroTros is responsible, they didn’t coach him well or didn’t want to see the vulnerability of the artist they chose this year.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul Sorenson

This is just guesswork, how do you know they didn’t coach him? Joost had a mental coach and a whole team around him among who some of his best friends. but this ESC was so excepional, it unfortunately wasn’t enough.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul Sorenson

It makes a difference, posting your own content is not the same as people posting content about you. In a normal life, they have to ask permission to do that.

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago

After five months, Geert Wilders has formed a coalition.

Now see what you’ve done, EBU?

Seddik
Seddik
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonas

Oh my, in a few years we will be looking back and conclude that the disqualification of Joost was the final straw that caused the Dutch to vote in favor of leaving the EU. What have you set in motion Österdahl? 😛

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago
Reply to  Seddik

The butterfly effect.

Goodbye, mankind.

Dr. Fergal Sherlock
Dr. Fergal Sherlock
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonas

I’m off to dig a bunker… Arrgghhhh

Jonas
Jonas
1 month ago

Bring cushions, stock up on Heinz beans. You’ll be fine.

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonas

vvvvvvv Don’t Engage vvvvvvv

Milla
Milla
1 month ago

A very nice article. I think there were different circumstances that lead to the incident.. not only an annoying photographer that crossed the line, as many seem to think.

Briekimchi
Briekimchi
1 month ago

Excellent article and even though we do not know the in’s and out’s of this exchange specifically, the Dutch delegation, as recently as last year, had serious questions raised with regards their ability to safeguard their contestants.

Surely, going forward, this is an area for improvement for them, because this year, they certainly had the artist and song required to do well.

Seddik
Seddik
1 month ago
Reply to  Briekimchi

The Dutch delegation included Joost’s brother and some of his best friends, who know him inside and out. I think he had all the support he needed. And the delegation was led by Twan van de Nieuwenhuijzen, who has a lot of experience in Eurovision. But apparently they were unable to prevent him from being ambushed by the ESC Digital Team backstage. But is that really the job of the delegation, to protect their artists from staff? I feel it is up to production to keep their people under control.

FunQ
FunQ
1 month ago
Reply to  Seddik

Joost brother may not have psychological skills to prevent the outburts of rage of his brother. Neither do his friends. Does he have a manager? From ancient times the managers of the artists are tasked to control the hysteria and problems of singers. We have had good examples of this in the biographic films such as Rocketman. You get a problematic singer (no shade intended). You put him in a meatgrinder such as Eurovision and then you blame EBU for what happened. Too simple.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Briekimchi

What serious questions concerning the safety of the Dutch participants do you mean?

Salmon the sardine
Salmon the sardine
1 month ago

The wisdom of hindsight. We could have prevented 9.11 We could have prevented the Holocaust. We could have prevented October 7 We could have prevented the boo We could have prevented the covering face, laughing, ignoring, sleeping , behave in a disrespectful way for other representatives. We could have prevented the media claiming that one specific country doing campaign to vote for their own country. While year they do that And each country does that as well. But the focus is on specific country and not others. We could treat all countries in equal way, except one specific country: Not… Read more »

Salmon the sardine
Salmon the sardine
1 month ago

*each year

Darren
Darren
1 month ago

Somethings you can see will happen, ie predictable. Such as the EBUs duty of care failures.

Other things, can not be predicted of course. But the EBU is a professional body, and should have accounted for various predictable scenarios

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago
Reply to  Darren

Clearly, the EBU doesn’t have a crisis team, at least one worthy of the name.

anon
anon
1 month ago

Did you seriously compare Israel’s participation to literal terror attacks and g*nocides?? I understand what you’re trying to get across, but mentioning those events to set up your point feels grossly inappropriate.

salomon the sardine
salomon the sardine
1 month ago
Reply to  anon

I will not go for that same debate that Israel was attacked by savage animals and targeting on those terrorists.

But I will say:

Are all the countries atm innocents?
When Turkey will want to rejoin, will you condemn their ocupationg of Cypress? Their bombing terror acts on civil Kurds?
Did you condemn Turkey back than?

NickC
NickC
1 month ago

I am glad you brought up Turkey. As a Turkish citizen I am ashamed of what we did to Kurdish people, some call t e r r o r i s t s, others call freedom fighters. Or what we did to Armenians, even though it was a full scale war. Are you ashamed of anything? Does this ring a bell?

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago

I’ll leave you with the words of a legal mind:

https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1791103625504145833

Davie
Davie
1 month ago

This is a very well written article. Thank you Wiwibloggs for printing it. over the last week, some pretty awful things have been written about this incident and about the woman who made the complaint. The level of sheer misogyny from many fans on this website has been truly appalling. People have said she’s a “Karen”, was probably asking for it and that she was demanding special treatment because she was a woman. Think about these comments in 2024. They are not acceptable. If a male member of the production staff had shoved a female performer can you imagine the… Read more »

Seddik
Seddik
1 month ago
Reply to  Davie

You don’t call the police for a minor infraction like this. Certainly not if you know what the consequences will be for the person you are calling them for. If this happens to Average Joe, he will receive a small fine at most and that’s it. Won’t but rattle the floor. But Joost has now very publicly received a punishment that is now completely out of proportion to his unlawful act, even before a judge has assessed the case. She could and should’ve handeld this very differently. She caused Joost way more harm than he caused her. And people are… Read more »

Davie
Davie
1 month ago
Reply to  Seddik

Have you spoken to her? Do you know how she is feeling? Do you know it was her who called the Police? Or was it one of the many witnesses?

You know nothing. You are upset because Joost was disqualified but you should suspend your judgement until the facts are known. Because she is “only crew” doesn’t mean she has any less right to safety and respect than anyone else.

You know nothing abot it because she has not spoken to the press. You can see why she would not identify herself because of all the hate she would receive.

Seddik
Seddik
1 month ago
Reply to  Davie

I’m sorry, but her feelings are not important in handling this case. Criminal law is all about objectifying the subjective. And it is not true that we know nothing. Malmö police has confirmed that there was only a threatening movement (a lunge towards the camera), but she was not touched and there was no verbal threat. Do you also question the credibility of the Swedish police? A threatening movement is not something that deserves prosecution. The justice system is stressed enough. It’s a joke. These types of things are usually handled with a good talk between both parties, moderated by… Read more »

Davie
Davie
1 month ago
Reply to  Seddik

If the Police thought it was nothing then they would have done nothing.

That is a fact.

If they investigated and found nothing then they will not charge.

They have said there is enough evidence to charge.

But I’m sure you know better than them.

Seddik
Seddik
1 month ago
Reply to  Davie

Well I know better than you. Police doesn’t charge anyone. They conduct an investigation and hand their findings over to the public prosecutor, who decides if and what criminal charges are to be filed (something that does not have happened yet). And the police don’t get to have an opinion about that, they’re supposed to stay impartial.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Davie

They can’t do nothing because of the media attention.

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Seddik

Malmo is a city known for its gangs and drugs related crimes, and now the police had to take care of this with priority…

Fatima
Fatima
1 month ago
Reply to  Seddik

You don’t call the police for a minor infraction”. I agree, but all that makes me think is that it wasn’t a minor infraction.

Seddik
Seddik
1 month ago
Reply to  Fatima

That is literally what the Malmö police called it and it is also because of that, that the criminal case can and is being fast-tracked.

Ricardo
Ricardo
1 month ago
Reply to  Fatima

Malmo police said so.

Dr. Fergal Sherlock
Dr. Fergal Sherlock
1 month ago
Reply to  Davie

Some far worse (and false) things have been written about by the person who was filmed without his explicit NON-consent. Not all men are bad, and not all women are good – it’s misonginistic to assume otherwise. A camera ‘person’ failed to follow instruction, more than once, and was verbally snapped at in a crowded area ‘as a result’. Joost may not have realised or registered them as female in crowd, and in his post- stage state. The camera person seems to have taken no responsibility for their part of this whole debacle. The performer tried to apologize immediately but… Read more »

FunQ
FunQ
1 month ago

Finally. A serious approach to the problem. If the broadcaster brings in an artist requiring some kind of psychological support, the broadcaster has the responsability to protect him/her/they. It cannot be left to a camerawoman who is doing her job as for the other 25 or 36 delegations passing in front of her. I agree the exclusion has maybe been too much. But I don’t find the behaviour of Avrotros exempt from criticism here.

FunQ
FunQ
1 month ago
Reply to  FunQ

Controlling the outburst of rage is the first task for a public figure. If one is known to have had a difficult past, either you don’t expose him to such huge pressure. Or one broadcaster delegate, with psychological skills, follows him step by step and step in as soon as the situation degrades. I have the example of Marta Donà, the manager of Måneskin, Marco Mengoni and also Angelina Mango. She is ALWAYS beside her artists. Also sitting on the couch of the green room. But following her artists everywhere. You can see her just at the side or one… Read more »

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  FunQ

But if it’s true there was an agreement not to film him coming of stage, they did try to protect him… and it’s not just the Dutch broadcaster to blame.

Darren
Darren
1 month ago

Definitely could have been prevented. Lack of communication between EBU and SVT regarding the filming of Joost, then the EBU response was completely disproportionate to the actual event, considering the other blatant violations that took place this year, one big one in particular.

The EBU showed their true face last week. A face we all knew was there, but events last week confirmed it.

Milla
Milla
1 month ago
Reply to  Darren

But where was the people behind Joost on the occasion? Could they have helped him in any way to prevent what he did?

Maria
Maria
1 month ago
Reply to  Milla

They were not with him, the incident happened when he left stage and they thought he was safe because there was an agreement not to take pictures after his vulnerable performance?

FunQ
FunQ
1 month ago
Reply to  Darren

Darren, EBU is not a charity organization. They cannot follow the psychological problems of 37 delegations or 37 singers. I guess there are 1500 people of the production taking care of the event. And one of then may cross the line or boundaries set by one of the singers. Example, asking an autograph or a selfie. In case the artist goes out of mind, it cannot be fault of EBU. EBU sets the framework and provides the tools and rules, but cannot set rules for everything or prevent everything. We are speaking only of this affair here. Hot of the… Read more »

Dawid
Dawid
1 month ago
Reply to  FunQ

They don’t have to follow them but they need to intervene when they receive complaints. Stop acting as if it’s brand new company made by fans 2 years ago. It was 68th edition of the contest.

Darren
Darren
1 month ago
Reply to  FunQ

Any professional organisation has a duty of care.
The EBU, as organisers of the Eurovision has a duty of care.
And agreement was already in place between AVROTROS, SVT and the EBU regarding Joosts vulnerability
And it was ignored.

So yes, one doesn’t have to be a charity to follow the psychological conditions and f their staff and partners. Most if not all employers and organisations have this responsibility