The last time the jury and the public agreed on the Eurovision winner was way back in 2017. That year Portugal’s Salvador Sobral topped both halves of the vote, making him the undisputed king of that edition.
Since then there has always been a disparity. The people’s winner took the crown in 2018, 2021, and 2022 (that’s Netta, Måneskin and Kalush Orchestra). While the jury’s winner won it all over the past two years (Loreen and Nemo).
Eurovision winners: Jury-televote split
| Edition | Winner | Jury Rank | Public Rank |
| 2017 | Salvador Sobral | 1 | 1 |
| 2018 | Netta | 3 | 1 |
| 2019 | Duncan Laurence | 3 | 2 |
| 2021 | Måneskin | 4 | 1 |
| 2022 | Kalush Orchestra | 4 | 1 |
| 2023 | Loreen | 1 | 2 |
| 2024 | Nemo | 1 | 5 |
Eurovision 2024 grand final: Who did the jury help and hurt the most?
At Eurovision 2024, Switzerland’s win came down to large support from the professional juries who ranked them first (whereas the public ranked them fifth). The juries didn’t just rank Nemo first — they did so with a staggering 365 points. That was 147 points more than what the juries awarded their runner-up Slimane from France.
In terms of absolute points, Switzerland was the act that benefitted the most from the juries. Portugal’s iolanda benefitted the second-most (+126), followed by Germany’s Isaak (+81), Sweden’s Marcus & Martinus (+76) and Luxembourg’s Tali (+63).
Who did the juries hurt in the Eurovision 2024 grand final?
Israel’s Eden Golan was the artist hurt most by the juries. They gave “Hurricane” 271 fewer points than the public.
Other acts that received significantly fewer jury points than televote points were Ukraine’s Jerry Heil & alyona alyona (-161) and Croatia’s Baby Lasagna (-127). Of course, Ukraine came fifth with the juries and Croatia came third with the juries in terms of rank ordinals. But because the jury votes went overwhelmingly to Nemo, the discrepancy in absolute terms is large.
Eurovision 2024 Jury Vote
- Switzerland – 365 points
- France – 218 points
- Croatia – 210 points
- Italy – 164 points
- Ukraine – 146 points
- Ireland – 142 points
- Portugal – 139 points
- Sweden – 125 points
- Armenia – 101 points
- Germany – 99 points
- Luxembourg – 83 points
- Israel – 52 points
- United Kingdom – 46 points
- Greece – 41 points
- Latvia – 36 points
- Cyprus – 34 points
- Lithuania – 32 points
- Serbia – 22 points
- Spain – 19 points
- Austria – 19 points
- Georgia – 15 points
- Slovenia – 15 points
- Norway – 12 points
- Finland – 7 points
- Estonia – 4 points
Eurovision 2024 Public Vote
- Croatia – 337 points
- Israel – 323 points
- Ukraine – 307 points
- France – 227 points
- Switzerland – 226 points
- Ireland – 136 points
- Italy – 104 points
- Greece – 85 points
- Armenia – 82 points
- Lithuania – 58 points
- Sweden – 49 points
- Cyprus – 44 points
- Estonia – 33 points
- Serbia – 32 points
- Finland – 31 points
- Latvia – 28 points
- Luxembourg – 20 points
- Georgia – 19 points
- Germany – 18 points
- Portugal – 13 points
- Slovenia – 12 points
- Spain – 11 points
- Austria – 5 points
- Norway – 4 points
- United Kingdom – 0 points
Did the jury help or hurt your favourites? Let us know down below…
Why are so many bleating about Nemo being fifth? It was the amount of points they won which was significant. If you have 226 televotes, you’re a contender regardless of your placing.
Salvador Sobral, the undisputed kingof 2017 and of the current system! Yessss! This is the sheer and beautiful truth!! Thank William for reminding us!
This annual juries versus televote debate isn’t good for the contest. It encourages arguments, and we’ve more than enough of those anyway. It was so much simpler and better in 1974 (a contest many of would have rewatched recently), when larger juries of real people made the decision, all based on the performance we all saw for ourselves.
No one has ever won by being fifth in the televoting except Metler. Scam. Eurovision fans, let’s do something together to cancel this result because after something like this this competition has lost credibility
Do what? EBU learned last year they can get away with anything… so they went even harder this year
Chill out. No scam or fraud or conspiracy. As if everyone wanted Switzerland to win for some reason. But no one says what that reason might have been. The drama will continue until summer gets in and all eurofans will go to the beach for swims.
of course, wealthy swiss people who bribe juries LOL
as well as also norwegian influence from his backing singer Elsie Bay, whom always wins in each show
LOL. Where were these ‘wealthy swiss people’ in the last years? Why would they all of a sudden step in and ‘bribe’ the juries? And no, I won’t take ‘because he had good chances to win’ as an answer. Luca Hänni and Gjon’s Tears also were favourites to win. This accusation is perposterous and drags the validity of the contest into the dirt. You may not like the song, and that’s ok. You may not like the fact the juries decided the winner of the contest, and that’s understandable. But making up such bs just because you’re salty that the… Read more »
I can’t understand how people don’t see a problem in a jury piling votes on only one country and how unbelievable that is. Last year that could be explained with Loreen being one of the most loved, well known and respected Eurovision winners competing again with radio friendly song, but this year that type of support seems so strange. Don’t get me wrong, love Nemo. But he was not only good vocalist, or only jury friendly song. I was expecting better spread of votes between Switzerland, France, Portugal, even Norway, each of them getting 7-8 12points… Am I missing something… Read more »
I agree… and even if they all agree on Neamo, why they did not agree on anybody Else. Slimane, for example was ranked first, i think once, but also 24th by Australia. So they have same taste only in case of Nemo?
Slimane had voice cracks in the jury performance, so the juries couldn’t all go for France.
He is lucky it wasn’t during the live TV show.
We have a tendency to believe that juries only vote because of a good voice. This is not The Voice, this is the Eurovision Song Contest, and also the songs are valued. I think The Code was just much a better song than Mon Amour, Grito or Ulveham.
Metlers win is rigged No one has ever won by being fifth in the televoting except Metler. Scam. Eurovision fans, let’s do something together to cancel this result because after something like this this competition has lost credibility !
But Loreen was second in televoting And Metler finished fifth in televoting No one has ever won from such position in televoting, and neither should Metler . This is fraud ! Let’s cancel the results!
Juries are following the EBU orders. Switzerland not the only problem, how can someone with a robotic pre-recorded voice like the lasagna finish in any jury top 3
That’s called back vocals…. many use them, including Nemo
We can say what we want depending on our perspective. For example, I liked Nemo’s song and wanted it to win. In my perspective, I am happy and nothing is wrong.
The reason why you or many other eurofans complain about Switzerland is because you rooted for another song that did not win or do well or that well.
Another example, I dislike Sobral’s winning song in 2017. I could complain and say that the juries gave the record points to make it win. Or that a conspiracy was played, manipulating the televote for that song. See?
Oh.. but I don’t dislike the song, I think the win is well deserved, didn’t see anyone else winning, to be honest. But that doesn’t change the fact that this was wild distribution of jury points, and that’s not a perspective, 22 countries giving 12points is just a fact. And I can honestly love the song as much as I want, but I am also realistic about what this means for the contest in the future. Whatever jury criteria is, it should never be dismissive towards other equality deserving acts at the expense of having one unified winner that no… Read more »
Of course the difference between Ireland’s televote and jury vote points is 6. 666-ception
the juries are too judgemental
As you can see, only Metler was fifth in televoting. All the others who won were first or second. That’s why Metlers win is fraud. who is thinking like me should join me and maybe we can try together to disprove the false result?
I’ll support you but only spiritually
this been bothering me and disclaimer this does not hold any facts just my theory. >Not being obvious but seems EBU don’t want Israel to win this year too but they don’t have the balls to ban them at first place, so a dirty tricks is then made. Imagine If ever Israel win this year a chaos gonna explode, an inevitable commotions from the audiences. >EBU and the Host mess up with 100%public votes in semis with the possibility to happen again on early voting in grand final because Israel is not playing fool this year. They know they can… Read more »
As you can see, only Metler was fifth in televoting. All the others who won were first or second. That’s why Metlers win is fraud. who is thinking like me should join me and maybe we can try together to disprove the false result?
I think you’re making the classic mistake here – what you are suggesting is a conspiracy between the EBU, broadcasters, the 36×5 = 180 individual members of national juries, not to mention the companies of PWC and ONCE…. that is HUNDREDS of people who would need to coordinate perfectly, all in the less than 24 hour period (!!!!) between semifinal 2 and the jury rehearsal.
This is humanly impossible.
Ireland 6th in public and jury vote, sixth in the finale ranking and with 6 points of difference between jury and public vote. The summoning went right, I love It for them
As you can see, only Metler was fifth in televoting. All the others who won were first or second. That’s why Metlers win is fraud. who is thinking like me should join me and maybe we can try together to disprove the false result?
Are you going to parrot the same thing all over this thread?
25% classic jury, 25% super jury that only judge on LIVE vocals, 50% televote
I see people love mediocrity and mimic singers.
This isn’t a singing competition. If you want only vocals go watch american idol and stop being bu*thurt that juries sank Israel. It was never that good of a song.
But American Idol has changed what viewers are voting for in Eurovision. They are usually voting for talented artists and outstanding performances.
You say that like it’s a good thing…
As you can see, only Metler was fifth in televoting. All the others who won were first or second. That’s why Metlers win is fraud. who is thinking like me should join me and maybe we can try together to disprove the false result?
First you should start to call him Nemo, or Mettler (with two T). Are you a kind of dislexical psycho who repeats ad nauseam the same thing over and over again? Sincerely, go to see a good psychiatrist. You desperately need help. The result is just perfect as it is. Måneskin won being 4th among the juries (with the 3rd place very close). Nemo won being 5th with the televote. The juries don’t usually vote songs like Europapa and the one of Baby Lasagna. And, sincerely, I preferred that Nemo won because he is a talented singer. Shouting into the… Read more »
Sorry, I wrote him. Had to write them.
Here’s a theory. If Joost Klein would perform in the final, he’d “steal” a lot of votes from Croatia and Switzerland. That would most probably mean that Israel would have won. EBU knew this, of course, and they also knew that Eurovision in Israel in 2025 would probably mean the end of Eurovision as we know it. So ditching NL was very convenient for them. Thoughts?
How would have Israel won if they still finished behind Ukraine and France? Would Joost steal votes from everyone except Israel?
No. The EBU are not that clever.
Well they managed to manoeuvre the UK into “second place” in 2022
That was the AI robot fake points
Which is why we should be frightened of AI
Yes. With the alteration of the jury votes of Romania, San Marino and other countries by accusing them of pattern voting.
But you rember well the famous votes from 4 or 6 countries, I don’t remember, announced by Martin Osterdahl in the final because of the presumed pattern voting. That has deeply annoyed the Romanian delegation who abandoned Eurovision. By doing so EBU is destroying Eurovision. And, sincerely and again, Martin Osterdahl should be forced by the delegations (at least big five) to resign.
I had a similar thinking Dennis and I also wondered if the juries were given “instructions”
I highly doubt it. What juror would allow themselves to be used like that? Wouldn’t there be a whistleblower somewhere?
This is the EBU, not MI5.
They probably had to sign an NDA (including “Louise” from Eternal heaven help us). Dont forget that 6 juries allowed themselves to be used in 2022, creating suspicion by all placing Sweden last lol.
Isn’t Louise the good one from Eternal? I don’t know a huge amount about them but I remember reading recently about fights over playing Pride festivals.
She left and pursued a brief “solo career”, then married a footballer. Good one might be stretching it. One of the sisters was briefly married to one of Boyzone. She was the most talented one. The others did backing vocals and ran around in the background. They had some good material. Pride festivals sound about right, probably alongside Tight Fit, a sort of UK Alcazar.
Interesting, thanks. They should be remembered more.
Except…
It seems Eternal were about to reunite for a tour, but plans fell apart when the two sisters refused to play Pride. Louise pulled out as a result. Sad.
Louise is a hero! With morals. She refused to give up her principles for £££. Which means it is unlikely she would sell her soul to the EBU.
Yes, those sisters are probably “religious” (other than the sanctity of marriage). Louise doesn’t need the £££, she is a less rich Dictoria Beckham.
Why is it that someone being true to their beliefs is a hero becuase she did something gays like, but two other people also being true to their beliefs are not? People belive different things. Why cant that just be OK?
Okay, but then it should be okay for anyone to think it’s not okay that others think playing a Pride isn’t okay. I could go on.
SAME, I have the same theory as yours. If without EBU dirty tricks of NL DQ I have a strong feeling Israel is the winner of this year.
Agree. they seized an opportunity
But then why not just disqualify Israel? That would have been ultra-convenient for the EBU. And Klein was heading for 15th or worse. We forget that his staging was a let-down.
The jury killing the televote happened twice in a row. Both years had no jury voting in the semifinal.
We don’t need to remove the jury voting in order to change that, we need to reintroduce the jury in the semi final to have more jury favourites in the grand final. If the televote picks the finalists, the jury ends up with one favourite they’re giving all their points too.
Maybe Australia would have done well in the GF if they qualified? Maybe Czechia would have been in the jury top three? Who knows.
In principle this is a good argument but in practice it is difficult to find examples of jury favourites staying in the semifinal. Iceland or Denmark perhaps? The public did vote for jury bait songs like Portugal, Latvia, Serbia or Slovenia.
What the lack of jury in semifinal does is inhibits the selection of more jury friendly songs. The countries are putting a more televote friendly emphasis on the acts they select. They want to qualify. More national finals are giving the public a greater say in the selection process. So, we get fewer so called jury friendly songs even making it to Eurovision. This will make it easier for the few jury friendly songs that do make the final, to dominate the vote and secure large cushions of votes. Also, with more televote friendly songs making it to Eurovision, the… Read more »
Denmark, Australia and Czechia are jury songs. And these are probably the biggest jury songs that got kicked out of the semi. And maybe they would have received some of Switzerlands 12s? My fear is: More countries will realise this and only send jury songs – we could end up with one of the most boring line up next year.
Televote picked 6 ballads this year from semis and jury gave them sh*t, except Portugal.
Also in the GF the juries didn’t like songs in native languages. Of course they liked Ukraine, Italy and France, but their bottom 10 was full of non-English songs.
Ballad doesn’t mean anything. The jury killed off Portugal 2018 too (though the televote did not like it either). The jury does not always love ballads. The jury probably had its own favourites that were kicked out by the televote. Or did Sweden receive 350 points in 2022? Or Switzerland 380 in 2021? If the jury winner landslides again next year, we will know why. If 2026 reintroduces juries in the semifinals and the winner does not landslide, we will have the final evidence.
Also one of this ballads was Israel and got 323 points because of right-wing “solidarity”.
But Loreen was second in televoting. As you can see, only Metler was fifth in televoting. All the others who won were first or second. That’s why Metlers win is fraud. who is thinking like me should join me and maybe we can try together to disprove the false result?
Why don’t you call them Nemo?
And we don’t know how many of the Swedish 12s Latvia, the Netherlands, Iceland or Georgia would’ve gotten. Maybe instead of 15 – 11? 10?
I can’t keep up Eva. What place did Switzerland get in the televote? Fourth? Sixth?
But the juries suxk all the fun out of it. They go for boring ballads and the politically correct entries.
Can we appreciate the fact that the 5 first acts all finished on the left part of the scoreboard in final? We have to go to the slot 7 (Spain) to find the first truly bad result. Also, I calculated the average place of countries in the first half (1-12th) and in second half (14th-25th), putting aside the (undeserved) 25th place of Norway which performed 13th. In the first half, the average final place is 12,42 and in the second half it is 12,58. Not bad I guess. Political votes of course influenced a lot this balance but at least… Read more »
And the fact that 6 out of 7 first half songs qualified from semi 1.
Israel second. Oh please I don’t believe it. Everybody hated her by the day of the final. Ebu has got a lot to answer for. There should be even more transparency with the voting system. I don’t know one single person who voted for Israel
Don’t remember you questioning Russias high results after the invasion of Crimea. You all rooted for Russia to win in 2016 AND 2020. What happened? You found your moral compass all of the sudden? Where was it beforehand?
You said the same thing yesterday. Maybe you didn’t read the replies, or aren’t able to understand that outside your bubble there are millions of Europeans who don’t think like you.
Not ‘everybody hated her’.
That says all about your bubble.
In the arena there were many (mostly middle-aged) men booing at her. Most did not.
There were some bullying participants. Most of the singers didn’t join in with them.
The same goes for the people at home, watching the show.
I hated her with a passion. A vile human being!
Exactly, you truly are a vile human being, it’s good you know it yourself.
I know it’s a wind-up, but I thought she seemed quite nice. Nice presentation and good singer. The song could have been better. As for politics, I don’t believe she gets involved.
You hated a beautiful talented young woman who was singing a song ? Think that says more about you and your issues
We cannot ignore the fact that Israel also recieved some 3-6 points. It’s interesting and also a hint that there was an audience for the song.
Maybe Israel received way more points than it should have because of the current situation. Or maybe those few points, from many countries, show how Israel still scored with the public: It was top 10 anyway.
Clearly quite a lot of people didn’t hate her.
ESCGabe has calculated that the Israeli government’s “Vote for Eden” PR campaign must have cost at least €1.5 million*, plus there were politicians in several countries calling on their followers to vote for Israel, and there are quite a few people on twitter who claim they voted for ISR 20 or even 60 times (with multiple sim & credit cards). So I can believe that loads of people who maybe didn’t even watch the show voted for her, inflating her score enormously. I think this is a much more likely explanation than fraud. *billboards on Times Square, sponsored ads on… Read more »
I know of 93 people who voted for Israel _Reason, though I did not.
I truly believe that the jury has got certain instructions, like, this year: please vote Luxembourg because we want a nice welcome to have them back; please do not vote Ukraine because we cannot have another ESC hosted by a non winning country; please vote Sweden because we rule Eurovision, etc.
It is not necessarily instructions but for example putting Luxemburg last in semi 1 and then that Petra’s interview with Tali during voting is securing that Luxemburg qualifies.
I actually thought they would mention Luxembourg’s return way more. I thought they kept it professional. They also said nothing about Sweden as a host country performing first, which I thought they should. It’s special and unique. They decided not to, and it’s fair not to influence the voters even a bit.
I mean I don’t mind them pushing Luxemburg. I think it would have qualified even from 2nd place. It was a good song. But if you wanna do it properly then do it after the voting is over. Like in Croatian national final Let 3 performed Mama SC after the voting was done instead of during the voting as always so it doesn’t affect people voting since they competed again.
You are not all getting the point here: Luxembourg just got 20 points from the televote versus 83 from the juries. It does not matter when she sings, when she got interviewed… because it was the juries who made them be in the right side of the table.
Same with Sweden.
What I am talking about is semifinal where she got 117 points from televote and a respectable 5th place.
Also, if they are getting instructions, I think that Croatian jury didn’t get the memo because we gave Ukraine 8 points, and Switzerland/Luxembourg 0 lol
Of course, the Croatian jury had their own memo this year. Not to blame them, most of the favourite countries do that every year.
Switzerland was around 7th place with Croatian jury but one juror sank it, putting it on 17th place.
As you can see, only Metler was fifth in televoting. All the others who won were first or second. That’s why Metlers win is fraud. who is thinking like me should join me and maybe we can try together to disprove the false result?
Maneskin was 4th, very close to the 5th.
In this case in the jury versus televoting, but it is basically the same case (1st in one, 4th almost 5th in the other)
In reality they were a few points behind Malta who was 3rd.
Croatia had 48% more televote in finale over Switzerland, who was 5th. In semifinal it had 35% more votes than Swi. Cudos to jury who raped the result! Maybe next year someone 7th could win, it only has to pay more ..poor eastern European countries will never win over western European,why they even try? In following years so many countries could retreat, so westerners will perform with max 15 countries, like in 60ies
In televoting 4th and 5th place had one (1!) point difference, so this is basicly close to Månesking result. Stop spreading your hateful comments under every post.
*Måneskin
Maneskin won Televoting
Måneskin:
Jury: 4th (Difference 8 points more than 5th)
Tele: 1st
Nemo:
Jury: 1st
Tele: 5th (Difference 1 less than 4th)
Maneskin was also only 2 points behind Jury 3rd Malta.
And as for 2024 televote. We have the Netherlands thing. That 2e we don’t have in 2021.
And Joost was going to Top 4 with Televote which means Nemo would have been 6th Ot 5th
You can’t really tell. One more song to the list would influence the entire scoreboard, maybe even the scores of the songs performed before and after. But yea, NL would probably be top 5 judging from the televote in the semi final.
They kinda were Måneskings together with a Månesqueen.
For one year.
Technically, yes, I guess it is more convenient for the EBU to have the show in Switzerland than Moldova or Albania. But I don’t think this is why the juries loved Nemo so much.
I bet it is a factor. I know they hated having to go to Baku, but I think most people did. However, Croatia isn’t a problem and it’s a lot cheaper than Switzerland.
Sam Ryder (UK) also finished first with the jury and fifth on televotes in 2022. But Nemo scored bigger from the jury which helped propel him to victory. Anyways fair play to the juries this year, they could already tell that Ukraine and Israel would score well on televotes so they gave their points to other countries who deserved better or needed to be recognized for their hard work like UK’s Olly Alexander who got zero in televotes.
Israel and Ukraine are a big reason why something needs to be done, or otherwise runner-up has to take the hosting duties for upcoming years while the win goes for X country for other reasons than song.
But Ukraine was still 5th with the juries, they really liked the song. Israel was also on the left side of the scoreboard, leaving 14 acts beyond after the jury vote. I don’t think they downvote Israel because it’s Israel as some say, but they thought it’s a generic song and there are 11 better songs.
Some juries gave 12 points to Ukraine because “we are with you”. There was also non-musical reasons in that jury voting.
That’s the neverending story… what would have happened if we didn’t have the huge non-musical reasons televoting for Ukraine in 2022? Would have the UK won? Or would have Spain won because Chanel got more televoting than Sam Ryder? Or would all that televoting have gone to Moldova which would have then have an incredible televoting, a little bit like Keiino’s case, and still Sam Ryder would have won?
We will just never know.
Actually in reality the Spanish girl won the juries . Except Mr Osterdahl reallocated rhe votes of six countries to the UK. Countries who said they didn’t even have the UK in their top 5
Being able to vote 20 times for the same song is just ridiculous.
Agreed! One voter’s opinion being 20 times more important than another voter’s opinion is wrong.
I’d love to see a televote system where we as individual viewers can submit a personal top 10. Or if that’s too much, at least a top 3.
Especially since multi voting programs are available – the same ones that ticket touts use to buy up all the best tickets the second the come online, so that they can resell them for mega bucks. I’m not a computer programming expert, so if I can do it, surely a record promoter can push an act by underhand means.
Ex. If 10 voters decide (for any reason) that they want to support a certain song awarding it 20 votes that song ends up with 200 votes. On the other hand you may have 199 voters who favor another song but vote for it just once. This song which is immensely preferred by more people ends up with less votes than the other one. Isn’t it unfair? I think televote should be limited with one vote per song (but with no limits as to how many songs you can vote if you like more than one)
Today is Cher’s 78th birthday.
Happy St. Cher’s Day!
(She recorded a whole ABBA -themed album, don’t forget… this is what makes it on topic…)
I wish B&B had produced an album of new songs for her. Like the Bee Gees did with Streisand.
This year it appears that my own Wiwi Jury reviews pretty much match the actual combined jury results. My favourite (Swizerland) topped their score, and I put Croatia 3rd (and so did the jury). They also put Estonia last, which seems to vindicate my opinion that a song consisting of only two chords cannot possibly score well, even if it is about something interesting. (Or maybe it was the song’s title that put them off?) P.S. Someone needs to talk about yesterday’s live performance of that other version of the song about a tragic event that one must not mention… Read more »
You mean this…?
https://youtu.be/5TEtoEhrAQg?si=4227Oa1d8pY6lYM2
Ah, I see you broke the code… (of conduct?). 😛
Seriously this site won’t let me put links in comments any more, so, bravo I guess?
As for whether or not this is the performance I was referring to… how honest can I be nowadays about this without using a disclaimer, random coughing and misleading subtitles?
21224950Once again, realistically speaking, the contest was over even before the live Grand Final was broadcast. Isn’t it rather fraudulent of the EBU to ask the public to vote when they have no chance of changing the outcome, only of deciding runner up spots? And why is there a “rest of the world” vote? Why should people who are not in the EBU get to vote?
Australia are not in the EBU and they get to send a song. Voting is nothing.
The contest was not over before the televote started. Nemo had a headstart, but they still could have been caught. Nemo still needed public votes to win. A zero from the televote would have meant no victory.
I said realistically not absolutely. People voting for Israel’s entry for example (as most did) had no prospect of seeing their favourite win. But realistically that applies to nearly every country
in the show. And Australia is an associate of the EBU and contribute to the show in order to participate.
And before people pile on, yes I know that Croatia won the televote but taking into account the size of the countries, numerically speaking most viewers televoted for Israel.
Most viewers didn’t vote. Of those that did, it’s possible that Israel got 20 votes per person, and Croatia just one or two. More actual people probably voted for Croatia, I’d say.
My husband voted 20 times for Croatia in the Semifinal, and about 10 times in the Gran Final.
Kids at school also voted 20 times for Croatia,
and in Semi 2, 20 times to Europapa.
The televote can sink the jury winner. Switzerland also topped the jury vote in 2021, don’t forget.
In 2021, 8 countries were in with a realistic chance still after the jury vote. It wasn’t an almost unanimous pile on like 2023 and 24
When Nemo needed over 180 to win, I knew he would get it. But I wonder if the public could tell, or was it still dramatic and a good TV moment for them.
After the jury vote , the televote was meaningless except for one or two countries at best
Except realistically it was obvious that like 2023 z the winner had been chosen by a relative handful of people before the live final
The same people that chose UK in 2022, Switzerland in 2021, N Macedonia in 2019, Austria in 2018…?
My point isn’t about who the jury selects Jonas. It is about them giving one song such a landslide lead that the popular vote csnt realistically.overcome it
It was not. Like Eyal said, Nemo needed over 180 to win. That’s not nothing. Without the support of the televote, they could not have won. In other words, the people at home were crucial.
The public preferred 4 other songs by some distance. It was virtually impossible that any of them could win given how downmarked they had been by the juries in addition to the landslide given to him.
The televote is not a measure of who the public prefer.
Huh?
A song that has 50 people voting for it could get the same amount of points as a song that has a THOUSAND people voting for it.
50 x 20
1000 x 1
You can also say that multiple votes by one person means that there is more passion for it. My husband gave 1 vote for Serbia because he liked it and for support, and 10 votes for Croatia because he loved it and still listens to it. When the kids at school voted 20 times for Croatia and Europapa in the Semi, it shows that they are crazy about it. Without those songs this year, maybe they would give just 1 vote for Luna Poland, like some did. I haven’t heard any of them saying they were crazy out Luna, just… Read more »
You could also say that the jury vote is not a measure of who the music experts/professionals prefer. There are thousands of music experts in each country (certainly in the large ones) but only five jury members.
Yes, but it is called the jury vote. It represents the jury.
The televote represents who got the most votes, not who had the highest number of people voting for them. A thousand people voting for Croatia once should not carry less weight than 250 people voting twenty times for Israel or Spa. Hypothetical example.
But less than 200 people decided this year’s contest. The jury members. So called “professionals”. I hadn’t heard of the UK jury members mostly
Can someone please pinpoint exactly when it became a “full package” song contest?
What does the ideal “full package” consist of?
Does each part of the package carry equal weight?
Ever since the contest became visual, so that the visual presentation became part of the experience and therefore part the interpretation of the song and how it engages the audience. Became even more clear since both juries and televoters started to carry equal weight (which I agree with) Great song, great artist and great show that in combination engage the viewer and/or jury and evokes emotions (can both be sadness as well as joy and everything inbetween) No – sometimes a great song can just overshadow everything, or an artist or a show. But usually more components are parts of… Read more »
Is this a music contest or a stage contest? I mean: song and voice must be it all; visuals should be a plus.
Not even voice. Vocals are just another plus. Great songs can still be great without needing a Pavarotti or Whitney to sing them.
To answer your question about the full package, I think it’s like having an intimate date. it rarely happens, but sometimes one can find the perfect guy for a one night stand. You are not only feeling lucky, but you feel the wow effect.
Full package indeed. 🙂
You are right. Magic is undefineable. It is not dependent on any recipe.
It is called the EuroVISION, meaning the visual is part of the show
It has vision in the name… Visuals are certainly important part of winning package
The contest has always been visual! It still has a radio audience, eligible to vote. Special commentators for the radio broadcast even. Listeners never even saw Nemo’s spins.
I like to think that the song remains the most important thing, or even the ONLY important thing. I hope a great song would get high scores even if it had lousy staging and horrible fashion.
This is not an ordinary selection of songs. You have 26 short songs in a row which you have to choose from. You will probably remember some of the visuals. Of course all artists want to be remembered.
Exactly, that is why key changes, costume changes became so popular – now it’s dance breaks, vocal gymnastics and impressive visuals among others. You have tre minutes to stand out. It is just a very natural part of the performance.
Unfortunately, Poland this year tried too much using visuals, with “Tower”. The public are also not too impressed by aggression: Albania 2022 and Ronela, for example.
Yup during too much can doom you. I was so surprised by Poland during well last year, because the show felt like it was trying to do everything in three minutes. La Venda from Spain in 2019 had the same problem, and did bad despite it being a good fun song.
Yes, I don’t think a bad song can win just because of staging. And there have been songs with less stellar staging still winning. But over all the artist who manage to do both, usually stands stronger.
Latvia 2002, “I Wonna”. Maybe it felt like a summer dance act, fresh and interesting, or maybe it was only based on the show. I still think it was a bad song.
Ay ay aye.
Ohh excellent point! I wouldn’t call it a bad song, but mid table at best that year – song wise. 2001 and 2002 are two weird years when it comes to the winner. Not bad songs, there were just so many better songs. I still wonder (pun intended) how Malta didn’t win in 2002. Best song, great artist and for the time absolutely fine staging. But Marie N did bring it home with the performance, no doubt about it.
Malta and Latvia almost tied for victory. Latvia doesn’t have many friends and neighbouring countries, but obviously more than Malta. In this case, the neighbour voting decided who will be first and who’s second.
Just leave the jurries out of eurovison! There is little proof they will make “objective” decisions (based on what ever valid and innegotionable qualities) but a lot of proof they will make subjective descions and use the justifications to enhance their choice if asked. We already have a inbalanced representation as a country like Germanys 12 points and 82 million inhabitants has the same weight as Latvias or San Marinos 12 points. We probably can’t change that as probably nobody would accept weighted results (like multipling the points) based on the actuall numbers of votes from that came from that… Read more »
P.s: Let BIG 5 compete in the semi-finals! Stop the bought positions!
I agree with you: no automatic qualifier, every Country pay the same.
Ok so it would mean for this year seeing their televote results, no Spain Germany and Uk in the Grand Final… there would be a big drop in audience unfortunately. Everybody pays the same, ok It would mean less money for the contest and so forcefully an increase of the participation fees, then we will see more withdrawals because some countries couldn’t afford it. The automatic qualifiers pay for the less rich countries, we can agree or not about this system but it’s the reality. Drop in audience, less money so a show less qualitative, more withdrawals, but more equity,… Read more »
I think the opposite Ben. I think televoters are the more subjective, with many not even bothering to watch all songs. I would like to see better juries, though. Not just music professionals, but a more rounded representation. It would be quicker and cheaper to have a result based on one method, as was the case when the contest was much more important than it is now.
Yes of course it is subjective! It’s music and taste 🙂
But why should a bunch of people have tye same power as an entire nation?
The Hague seeks arrest warrants for the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. The EBU may welcome you but the rest of us will see you in the Internation Criminal Court.
I don’t think this is relevant for Eurovision since Netanyahu won’t participate.
They endorsed the israeli entry.
Wow this is the first year I’ve not had post Eurovision depression!
Same! At least something positive in all this mess!
Remove rigged juries. Only real musicians, songwriters. Not some people from TV, reality shows, past ESC singers. Any serious jury can’t rank such songs as Finland 2022, Croatia in any top 10.
In other words, your jury would be only people that like ballads and pop?
Quality of the composition, vocal quality, innovative approach. Non of gimmicky songs should be ranked high, and if jury did their job properly then those songs from Serbia, Slovenia and Portugal COULDN’T be out of top 10. Most of the jury members are musicaly uneducated people, and their “professional” jury is just a bunch of people who vote based on their taste instead of their music knowledge. Juries are needed, but not the one we’re getting for the past decade.
While all three of your examples have unquestionable vocal quality, they (especially Portugal and Serbia) have zero in innovative approach.
On the other hand both Finland last year and Croatia this year score high in innovation. Gimmick of this year was Finland and they did not score very high with both jury and televote.
I do, however, agree that juries are incosistent and IMHO easily manipulated. Scroll a bit down and see my other post.
Sorry, Portugal gave a masterclass about staging. Ho to do a lot with little. Countries with tight budgets should take notes.
I respect your opinion, but I see it as another ballad which we have seen many times and did not see anything new. But, that is matter of taste
I agree with Ricardo.
Portugal went from my bottom 5 after national final (being the only song I never listened entirely) to my top 5 after semi 1 to my top 3 after seeing her live in the final. I would have been totally fine with Croatia losing to France or Portugal. Both doing a perfect staging with great vocals and good charisma.
What exactly is innovative about Finish and Croatian songs? They are good somgs for people to have fun, dance to amd thats it. They have zero innovative aproaches in the songs composition, zero innovation regarsing stage, zero in any aspect related to innovation.
He must be referring to crochet accessories from Croatia with innovation. I’m kidding, I liked the Croatian song and Marko seems like a good person.
Why do people have the notion that innovative has to mean something good? San Marino bringing Flo Rida was innovative and it was sh*t. People like croatian and finnish songs because they are good and will stay as memorable esc songs unlike some winning songs that are already forgotten (azerbaijan for example).
In my judgement, the gimmick of the year was Nemo’s wobble-board. No-one did anything like that before.
Why the need for every song to be innovative?
There’s nothing wrong with using tried and tested craft, built on solid foundations.
From the Eurovision website:
Each juror shall rank all the competing songs in each show from their least favourite to favourite based on the following criteria:
– composition and originality of the song
– quality of the performance on stage
– vocal capacity of the performer(s)
– overall impression of the act
Yeah, which to me, is stupid. It should be all about the song. Nothing else.
How does that even work? The composition, i.e the SONG, only counts for 25%… in a song contest?
Proposed reform: juries concentrate on 100% song quality only. Leave the more shallow and visual elements to the televoters.
In the visual song contest, that has vision in the name, yes – song is just part of it
Ohh that’s why jury consists of dancers, enterprenuers, and other non-musicians. The big money is in the game, and they are asessing the music..I dont think so
Prove that the juries are rigged.
I don’t see any problem with those votes. Switzerland being first with jury is not surprising as Nemo delivered incredible vocals while moving a lot and thus showing impressive technique. Plus he had one of the best song this year (imo it was the best and the one that fits the most the current music style). Croatia sure wasn’t help by juries but did someone really hoped for BL to make more than 210 points with them? 210 is already a very very nice score for such vocals. As for Israel, even though the song wasn’t really special, I think… Read more »
Well problem is that it does not seem legit. I don’t have a problem with the winner but favouring Nemo so heavily over all other great contestants does not seem right (see my post below).
I do agree on the fact that juries gave too big a lead to Nemo and I really understand how frustrating it must feel for Croatia to miss a victory that way. Sadly I think politics killed BL this year even though he was one of the few contestants that actually said nothing about the current situation… he just came for music. I think juries were going for Switzerland anyway but they focused a lot on Nemo to avoid a possible drama with Israel. In a “normal” year, I think Nemo would maybe have received 320-330 points instead of 365.… Read more »
“To avoid a possible drama with Israel” – hmm. But that is not their job surely? The jury votes for Israel were so similar that it looks a bit odd. In a “normal year” I think they might have been higher.
In a normal year, Israel might have received 5 points like Imri Ziv.
I didn’t say it was their job. I just think it is what happened. That being said, Israel can’t say that their vote is not political either…
I don’t understand how Angelina Mango performed much better in San Remo than in Eurovision. Everything was so much better: her hair, the lightning, she was alone without dancers. She scored only 104 points from the public which is really dissapointing.
Mistake was putting dancers with her. She has a a great stage presence alone and dancers just took the focus from her, putting it on the level of other girl bops which need dancers to elevate the performance
^ this. We lost all her charisma that was selling the song with those dancers.
You put your finger on it. Some of us lost money on it so it rankles a bit. She’s such a brilliant singer. People used to say. “too good for Eurovision” and I’m beginning to think that again.Sad.
Staging was too dark, and this summer feel wasn’t present during her performance unfortunately, it was missing.
Typical bad Italian staging. It’s already a tradition.
only 104 points??? honestly look at the bright side, another top 10 result for italy, remaining the most solid of the big 5 for a long while now
at least she had a decent result, unlike Benjamin Ingrosso (also from a very well known musical family same as Angelina) who flopped worse (especially in televote) in 2018
i admit i was wrong to be harsh on Angelina, but she clearly is very talented, and despite her privileges of having two famous musician parents she is quite down to earth, very likeable
i listen regularly to La Noia now 🙂
They planned to do something Eurovision freindly but then Angelina lost all her naturaity and consequently her self confidence. It happens ’cause in Sanremo the stage itself is not that important; this explains why do the only italian winners were Maneskin, who “ate that stage”.
I think that juries should stay, but the criteria should be changed a bit. More points should be awarded based on creativity and entertainment factors, such that televote favorites end up higher in jury lists. It’s good that Nemo won the jury votes, but the margins were too big. Also, I don’t think 60-40 is practical – we love the ‘douze points’ ritual too much. Also ROTW gives a slide overweight tot televote.
I don’t get the ones who are upset about the actual voting system. This is part of the game : delegations know when they select for Eurovision that their song needs to suit both college of voters. This is what make the contest challenging and undepredictable most of years. There’s just an inversion in the balance in 2023-2024 compared to 2021-2022. Honestly, we often know which entries are smatching the televote in advance during the ESC season while juries are sensible to other aspects until last minutes. I think this system is what make’s it very exciting until the very… Read more »